RAINMAKER DISMASTED OFF HATTERAS IN GALE

[Bryanjb]

So at the end of the day nothing is learned and the arrogance of the Gunboat captains remained unchecked. Great................ can't wait for the next episode of as the GB world turns.

SA: And is 40+ knots in the North Atlantic in winter really Gunboat weather in your opinion?

CB: I’ve sailed about 30,000 NM on Gunboats in winds up to 65knots, and always come through. We were extremely careful in our preparations and felt ready for anything, and I wouldn’t hesitate to take a Gunboat into that forecast again.

 

[adrumm]

So at the end of the day nothing is learned and the arrogance of the Gunboat captains remained unchecked. Great................ can't wait for the next episode of as the GB world turns.

SA: And is 40+ knots in the North Atlantic in winter really Gunboat weather in your opinion?

CB: I’ve sailed about 30,000 NM on Gunboats in winds up to 65knots, and always come through. We were extremely careful in our preparations and felt ready for anything, and I wouldn’t hesitate to take a Gunboat into that forecast again.

"Chris Bailet proved that his shoreside preparation is tops and that he’s great under fire, and he’ll no doubt be working on another Gunboat before too long. And I wouldn’t hesitate to do a delivery with him, any time, anywhere".

Me neither......when the shit hit s the fan, I know we will be getting a ride home!

 

[MR.CLEAN]

My apologies if I missed this....Maybe it was and no one expected anyone to actually take them to sea in winter.

They definitely did not do any practice dismastings to see what would break

Without further ado...

http://sailinganarchy.com/2015/03/01/the-last-of-the-rainmaker/

Well, talk about an anti climax....

U should probably avoid getting yourself all excited over a piece about a dismasting. It's never all that exciting.

 

[Boo-Yah]

Clean,

Generally avoiding this (the 2) circle jerk thread(s) but will drop a line to note my thanks for the write-up. Some useful bits in there to add to those from the various offline conversations.

Certainly different challenges in taking 18 wheelers and porsches along that route.

Did Jon/CB actually say they were going for the mainsail dump or is that your speculation? Wondered if they just tried going deep and "feathering" while sheeted. Did they say it was Jon's first reaction to dump? When you wrote he was fighting the helm it makes it sound like he could not get it turned down deep (at which point he maybe would dump). If so this sort of suggests it was not a gybe that took the rig down.

Can relate to the "how quickly" comments. Once the call is made and given the location, weather and owner being aboard, I think anyone with a ticket immediately has to make the call, these things take on a life of their own.

Anyway, thanks for posting it.

We now return you to your regular posers and bashing show.

Cheers,

Wess

The event started on autopilot, many have noted the boat layout could hamper situational awareness, not all pro crew are veteran instinctive dingy helmsman. I suspect there is something like pilot vertigo inside the boat on a major puff(whiteout) with the cabin all shut... I wonder about a family cruiser with an emergency stop button for the main? At some point marketing, fantasy, vision, passion may get ahead of the realities of modern families and mother nature.

 

[Boo-Yah]

Alan it is a great story... You are correct years ago we would not have read much like this in our magazines we waited for most months. The only thing close I can remember was when the "Wolf of Wall Street" sank the former Big Eagle in a lunchtime storm with blown windows or hatches. The long time captain did talk through at least one magazine.

I wonder how the relentless pounding on SA help build the story? Or did you get all this in a single call long before the peanut gallery started chiming in?

"U should probably avoid getting yourself all excited over a piece about a dismasting. It's never all that exciting."

The hype and seemingly missed answer dates started at least in part from SA. Then GB also laid some hype on the boats long before the simple weather event.

A watch of the video on a really good screen shows an owner reaching the helo looking not so good. The sea is a really big place to find anything lost. Until you try most do not get that. The fact that more than once folks found debris shows to me life aboard would have been very harsh for any who stayed. My two cents with passengers aboard the crew and person in command had a duty to get the passengers and crew off when he could. The opportunity for safe harbor was permitted and he took it. How many of you have had more than one item from a boat washed away in a seaway? If the boat stayed afloat maybe the crew could have survived locked down in one of the several watertight compartments. Who here want to go inside on of those and batten the hatch until the seas calm?

It is up to Gunboat to answer why the rig failed and if they are willing to make any changes to mitigate future risk and damage from weather events. The same is true only Gunboat should position the intended use for the design and build.

Rich Owners played a role in the loss here too...

 

[Boo-Yah]

The start of The Story one month ago.... just sayin.... One a positive side! Your readers or followers were interested and you did get the "story".


Mr. Clean said...


Reporters
34,477 posts

Location:Everywhere you want to be
Interests:.

Posted 30 January 2015 - 09:59 PM

"Glad everyone is safely on the ground. We'll get the full story in the morning."

 

[ProaSailor]

So at the end of the day nothing is learned and the arrogance of the Gunboat captains remained unchecked. Great................ can't wait for the next episode of as the GB world turns.

SA: And is 40+ knots in the North Atlantic in winter really Gunboat weather in your opinion?

CB: I’ve sailed about 30,000 NM on Gunboats in winds up to 65knots, and always come through. We were extremely careful in our preparations and felt ready for anything, and I wouldn’t hesitate to take a Gunboat into that forecast again.

I think Clean makes a valid observation in his "Gap 1":

Gap 1: Departure. While I wouldn’t have hesitated to leave on the forecast Rainmaker had, it would be for the express purpose of hauling ass. Rainmaker’s average speeds up to the dismasting don’t indicate she was in any rush at all, and if that’s the case, there was no reason for them to leave with that forecast.

Unfortunately, his last paragraph is tainted with the phrase "an unforecast and extreme weather event"... which appears to be more of a preclusion than a conclusion. The forecast they had prior to departure proved to be extremely accurate, down to the peak hour of the storm where they were located.

 

[Bryanjb]

I don't get it. The boat failed in the forecast and expected conditions yet they boldly claim they would go do it again in the same conditions. Think they may have drunk the GB cool aid?

 

[Boo-Yah]

I don't get it. The boat failed in the forecast and expected conditions yet they boldly claim they would go do it again in the same conditions. Think they may have drunk the GB cool aid?

Do we know? Did the boat fail or did the helmsman on watch allow the boat to go through an uncontrolled gybe in changing and severe weather weather?

Until someone credible puts a stake in the ground on why or how the rig failed we do not know. One thing interesting. One of the most respected yacht designers alive post very early on the thread. Then nothing from the experienced and educated on yacht design. I can take you out on a Star Boat and break a rig in seconds. Does that mean all Star Boats are deeply flawed?

 

[Bryanjb]

I guess you could sail with Hot Rod, the Condor 40 folks or the E Bay duo too? They all received rides courtesy the USCG. It bothers me that no lessons were learned and the captains of GB defend the actions knowing the outcome.

So at the end of the day nothing is learned and the arrogance of the Gunboat captains remained unchecked. Great................ can't wait for the next episode of as the GB world turns.

SA: And is 40+ knots in the North Atlantic in winter really Gunboat weather in your opinion?

CB: I’ve sailed about 30,000 NM on Gunboats in winds up to 65knots, and always come through. We were extremely careful in our preparations and felt ready for anything, and I wouldn’t hesitate to take a Gunboat into that forecast again.

"Chris Bailet proved that his shoreside preparation is tops and that he’s great under fire, and he’ll no doubt be working on another Gunboat before too long. And I wouldn’t hesitate to do a delivery with him, any time, anywhere".

Me neither......when the shit hit s the fan, I know we will be getting a ride home!

 

[Bryanjb]

How many Star boat sailors have been helo lifted back to shore? I always managed to sail my star back to the dock after breaking shit, no CG was required.

I don't get it. The boat failed in the forecast and expected conditions yet they boldly claim they would go do it again in the same conditions. Think they may have drunk the GB cool aid?

Do we know? Did the boat fail or did the helmsman on watch allow the boat to go through an uncontrolled gybe in changing and severe weather weather?

Until someone credible puts a stake in the ground on why or how the rig failed we do not know. One thing interesting. One of the most respected yacht designers alive post very early on the thread. Then nothing from the experienced and educated on yacht design. I can take you out on a Star Boat and break a rig in seconds. Does that mean all Star Boats are deeply flawed?

 

[kent_island_sailor]

Clean - good ending. You did as much as you could given the commercial relationship SA and GB have. Serializing the story kept the hits and interest up.

Nothing new really. It was obvious on the first post that the boat was out in the wrong place at the wrong time. Trying to make a dash behind one front and ahead of another is a risky play and it assumes nothing goes wrong and speed is maintained. Obviously this did not happen.

It was implied early on the owner was not in good shape mentally at least with the situation and that seems to be true. Given the weather coming at them and the poor state of the boat and 2 passengers, getting off seems pretty much a given.

I don't think you mentioned in your questions or the "gaps" not having a sea anchor. That could have made a HUGE difference and I am surprised none was aboard.

Finally you aren't going to say it for obvious reasons, but the boat looks much more like a high-tech day boat than an offshore boat. That boat should never have taken on the winter North Atlantic IMHO. I have bashed through the Gulf Stream enough times to be scared of that glass in the summer

 

[us7070]

Looking at the picture of the boat with the window gone there is clearly a problem in keeping the water out. In the modern world of panoramic views etc. the large window sizes on these boats is a bit of an issue. With no materials to effectively board up the window then it is hard to see how a 80knot storm could be endured. Losing the rig on boats of this type is very likely to smash the windows and you are most likely to break a mast when it is windy.

Maybe designers need to come up with a bit of a emergency plan for the large windows they are putting into these type of boats. I am not suggesting that they should not keep putting the windows in as it is obvious the benefits for the occupants 95% of the time when they are not crossing oceans.

I think that on this boat, the issue with the windows has been way overstated

as has been pointed out above...

if the hulls can be closed off from the salon.., there doesn't have to be any issue at all

any water that comes in there after they break just flows off the transom

then, the windows are just a big hard dodger - not mission critical hardware

the GB 55 has doors to close off the hulls.

problem is they were inoperable

most catamarans have _nothing_

i have looked at pictures of CW Atlantic cats - i saw no provision for sealing off the hulls

it sucks that one of the doors was inoperable, but in GB's defense, this is somewhat of an unusual accident, and it would have been hard to anticipate that the doors would become inoperable in this fashion.

while i wouldn't call the whole incident a "freak accident".., this particular part of is kind of new to me...

something has been learned.

i am sure GB and the owners can come up with a more robust system if it is desired - maybe just washboards

I don't see the windows as a fundamental problem with the design of the boat - once you have the ability to close off the hulls

if I owned one, and intended to do a lot of ocean sailing, , i would reconsider the possibility of polycarbonate or other plastics for the windows

 

[kent_island_sailor]

For open ocean sailing - I would say YES

(I actually once was asked to sail a Star to Bermuda ages ago. I said GTFO!)

I don't get it. The boat failed in the forecast and expected conditions yet they boldly claim they would go do it again in the same conditions. Think they may have drunk the GB cool aid?

Do we know? Did the boat fail or did the helmsman on watch allow the boat to go through an uncontrolled gybe in changing and severe weather weather?

Until someone credible puts a stake in the ground on why or how the rig failed we do not know. One thing interesting. One of the most respected yacht designers alive post very early on the thread. Then nothing from the experienced and educated on yacht design. I can take you out on a Star Boat and break a rig in seconds. Does that mean all Star Boats are deeply flawed?

 

[RKoch]

I have to question the "do it again" statement also. The boat wasn't able to handle the forecasted weather. Do it again? What? Maybe some peep are slow learners. I can't argue the decision to abandon after the freighter collision, we don't know the extent of the damage incurred...but the panic button was pushed much earlier. If a new GB can't handle those conditions under the control of an experienced professional delivery crew, then GB has some work to do to make it a globe-circling family cruiser. This wasn't an act of God, this was a result of several errors by several parties... the biggest error perhaps the hubris of thinking $2.5 M of disruptive technology was stronger than anything Mother Nature could dish out.

 

[kent_island_sailor]

Great boat.

Great crew.

Great plan.

Great weather.

Just one little tiny issue..........

I have to question the "do it again" statement also. The boat wasn't able to handle the forecasted weather. Do it again? What? Maybe some peep are slow learners. I can't argue the decision to abandon after the freighter collision, we don't know the extent of the damage incurred...but the panic button was pushed much earlier. If a new GB can't handle those conditions under the control of an experienced professional delivery crew, then GB has some work to do to make it a globe-circling family cruiser. This wasn't an act of God, this was a result of several errors by several parties... the biggest error perhaps the hubris of thinking $2.5 M of disruptive technology was stronger than anything Mother Nature could dish out.

 

[us7070]

How many Star boat sailors have been helo lifted back to shore? I always managed to sail my star back to the dock after breaking shit, no CG was required.

I don't get it. The boat failed in the forecast and expected conditions yet they boldly claim they would go do it again in the same conditions. Think they may have drunk the GB cool aid?

Do we know? Did the boat fail or did the helmsman on watch allow the boat to go through an uncontrolled gybe in changing and severe weather weather?

Until someone credible puts a stake in the ground on why or how the rig failed we do not know. One thing interesting. One of the most respected yacht designers alive post very early on the thread. Then nothing from the experienced and educated on yacht design. I can take you out on a Star Boat and break a rig in seconds. Does that mean all Star Boats are deeply flawed?

in what way is the boat "deeply flawed"

for reasons outlined a few posts up, i don't believe the windows are a deep flaw

a rig can come down on any boat

 

[Guvacine]

I can't believe that people here are actually responding to Clean's "Boy's Own" adventure story as if it has substance. COMPLETE whitewash filtered through a bunch of lawyers and PR pros. This is FICTION folks.

List of complete non sequitors (help me out here):

- disruptive storm evading speed - turns out to be 7 knots

- asleep on autopilot on a multi in 40 knots

- the carbon crunching oil tanker (didn't count on the ship in question posting embarrassing photos - am looking forward to more details from the ship)

- "microburst" - i.e.line squall with higher gusts

- 70 knots - bullshit (look at the weather bouys)

- 25' waves - bullshit (look at the weather bouys and ship pics)

- massive thrashing propeller - bullshit

I actually have sympathy for all involved. What gets me going is when people shamelessly bullshit, which leads OBVIOUSLY to people calling them on bullshit (as many here have done).

 

[RKoch]

For open ocean sailing - I would say YES

(I actually once was asked to sail a Star to Bermuda ages ago. I said GTFO!)

I don't get it. The boat failed in the forecast and expected conditions yet they boldly claim they would go do it again in the same conditions. Think they may have drunk the GB cool aid?

Do we know? Did the boat fail or did the helmsman on watch allow the boat to go through an uncontrolled gybe in changing and severe weather weather?

Until someone credible puts a stake in the ground on why or how the rig failed we do not know. One thing interesting. One of the most respected yacht designers alive post very early on the thread. Then nothing from the experienced and educated on yacht design. I can take you out on a Star Boat and break a rig in seconds. Does that mean all Star Boats are deeply flawed?

Hmmm, interesting thought. With reefing gear, I have no doubt a prepared Star could make Bermuda in decent weather. I've seen a Star weather a 50+ knot thunderstorm under full sail, although the sails were trashed afterward. Rig would not be a problem if you're very carefull. Accomodations would leave a lot to be desired.Uffa Fox sailed an Int 14 across the English Channel and back in the 30s. They had ballasted CBs and roller reefing back then.

 

[us7070]

in what way are the photos "embarrassing"?