RAINMAKER DISMASTED OFF HATTERAS IN GALE

[Boo-Yah]

How many Star boat sailors have been helo lifted back to shore? I always managed to sail my star back to the dock after breaking shit, no CG was required.

I don't get it. The boat failed in the forecast and expected conditions yet they boldly claim they would go do it again in the same conditions. Think they may have drunk the GB cool aid?

Do we know? Did the boat fail or did the helmsman on watch allow the boat to go through an uncontrolled gybe in changing and severe weather weather?

Until someone credible puts a stake in the ground on why or how the rig failed we do not know. One thing interesting. One of the most respected yacht designers alive post very early on the thread. Then nothing from the experienced and educated on yacht design. I can take you out on a Star Boat and break a rig in seconds. Does that mean all Star Boats are deeply flawed?

That would be crew versus boat. If you broke the rig in the Star near Rainmaker that day you would need a helo the the ability to climb the net onto the ship. This thread bunches up the command, crew, passengers, and boat all on the same shitpile. Each one makes the responsibility and outcome distinctively different.

 

[Boo-Yah]

For open ocean sailing - I would say YES

(I actually once was asked to sail a Star to Bermuda ages ago. I said GTFO!)

I don't get it. The boat failed in the forecast and expected conditions yet they boldly claim they would go do it again in the same conditions. Think they may have drunk the GB cool aid?

Do we know? Did the boat fail or did the helmsman on watch allow the boat to go through an uncontrolled gybe in changing and severe weather weather?

Until someone credible puts a stake in the ground on why or how the rig failed we do not know. One thing interesting. One of the most respected yacht designers alive post very early on the thread. Then nothing from the experienced and educated on yacht design. I can take you out on a Star Boat and break a rig in seconds. Does that mean all Star Boats are deeply flawed?

We may be in agreement... I am starting to think the GB 55 is the hottest day boat, coastal boat, saltwater party barge in history... still troubled by the lack of AC... Maybe better for Maine and Block Island Race Week?

 

[Rasputin22]

Alan it is a great story... You are correct years ago we would not have read much like this in our magazines we waited for most months. The only thing close I can remember was when the "Wolf of Wall Street" sank the former Big Eagle in a lunchtime storm with blown windows or hatches. The long time captain did talk through at least one magazine.

I wonder how the relentless pounding on SA help build the story? Or did you get all this in a single call long before the peanut gallery started chiming in?

"U should probably avoid getting yourself all excited over a piece about a dismasting. It's never all that exciting."

The hype and seemingly missed answer dates started at least in part from SA. Then GB also laid some hype on the boats long before the simple weather event.

A watch of the video on a really good screen shows an owner reaching the helo looking not so good. The sea is a really big place to find anything lost. Until you try most do not get that. The fact that more than once folks found debris shows to me life aboard would have been very harsh for any who stayed. My two cents with passengers aboard the crew and person in command had a duty to get the passengers and crew off when he could. The opportunity for safe harbor was permitted and he took it. How many of you have had more than one item from a boat washed away in a seaway? If the boat stayed afloat maybe the crew could have survived locked down in one of the several watertight compartments. Who here want to go inside on of those and batten the hatch until the seas calm?

It is up to Gunboat to answer why the rig failed and if they are willing to make any changes to mitigate future risk and damage from weather events. The same is true only Gunboat should position the intended use for the design and build.

Rich Owners played a role in the loss here too...

I met the Skipper of the 'Big Eagle' shortly after his mis-adventure and the loss of the vessel due to a 'I want to be there now!' attitude by the owner. He said he really felt like telling the owner he was nuts to make that short passage and offered to fly the owner over to the big wingding that the owner just had to attend. The biggest perk to the skipper was that he got to fly the helo and log time as well as the added sum to his salary being both the yacht skipper and the chopper pilot. The boss wanted to pull up in his yacht at the party AND then take the chopper to the beach for the greatest ego impact. When the big 40' 'gofast' tender which was being towed came surfing past the boat and then bashed in the 'garage doors' which led to the yachts flooding and eventual sinking, reality started to set in. The tender soon parted its line and then the seas smashed in the salon glass sliders and flooded the whole salon. Couches and furniture washing out. THe owner then demanded to fire up the helo and get he and his wife off of the boat but it was rolling too bad for a take off. Worst of all for the skipper was having to go up on the flight deck and jettison the helo to try and lower the CG and quell some of the rolling. The owner had just watched two of his expensive toys sink and now was stuck on board for the duration on the nightmare. The Italian CG or Navy did an admirable taking the owner and his party off by their helo as well as most of the crew, but you really have to hand it to the mate or engineer who stayed on board and scuttled the 'Big Eagle' and got plucked out of the water after it went down. Best part of this story is that the Skipper and crew kept their jobs and got even bigger new toys (and helo) to play with. I think that a hostess and cook opted out. All in a days work! Oh, they had a seaplane on board too... I guess what they really needed was one of those mini-submarines!

 

[MR.CLEAN]

I said it was full. I didn't say it was that exciting. But most importantly, I didn't say which morning.

The start of The Story one month ago.... just sayin.... One a positive side! Your readers or followers were interested and you did get the "story".


Mr. Clean said...


Reporters
34,477 posts

Location:Everywhere you want to be
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Posted 30 January 2015 - 09:59 PM

"Glad everyone is safely on the ground. We'll get the full story in the morning."

 

[MR.CLEAN]

I can take you out on a Star Boat and break a rig in seconds. Does that mean all Star Boats are deeply flawed?

Completely and totally. Not unlike a beautiful woman.

that's why Star sailors love them.

 

[Bryanjb]

Did it survive the expected conditions? Why might it not suffer the same fate again in those same conditions?

I don't question there decision to leave, abandon the boat, I question the statements that the boat can handle such conditions again.

in what way is the boat "deeply flawed"

for reasons outlined a few posts up, i don't believe the windows are a deep flaw

a rig can come down on any boat

 

[DDW]

if I owned one, and intended to do a lot of ocean sailing, , i would reconsider the possibility of polycarbonate or other plastics for the windows

I'm not sure polycarbonate is the answer for windows that big. It does not break easily, but it is quite flexible, and can be forced out of the frame fairly easily. You might not have broken glass on the deck, but you would still have an open window frame, and a big, heavy piece of plastic bashing around.

Also not sure that having plywood covers is a great solution. Have you ever tried to manhandle a piece of plywood that big in 40 knots of wind?

The solution probably involves breaking up the large glass panels into smaller ones, perhaps in combination with polycarbonate and storm covers.

They found a debris field but no boat. What happened to the boat? Sure it would drift faster than the debris, but they must have been pretty close.

 

[Boo-Yah]

The image used with Chapter 3 of "The Story" clearly shows how a large person can handle each of the winches without physically interfering with the helmsman. The space is clearly much larger and more open than many pictures communicate.

 

[[email protected]]

Imagine - no Coast Guard to rescue the idiots who undertake risky offshore voyages.

Simple: No more idiots!

Maybe no Coast Guard to the rescue = less idiots.

 

[RKoch]

Even if fatally damaged by the freighter, I would think there would be large pieces of boat afloat. The starboard hull was undamaged, as I understand. I'm surprised a big chunk of boat wasn't spotted near the debris field.

 

[us7070]

Did it survive the expected conditions? Why might it not suffer the same fate again in those same conditions?

I don't question there decision to leave, abandon the boat, I question the statements that the boat can handle such conditions again.




in what way is the boat "deeply flawed"

for reasons outlined a few posts up, i don't believe the windows are a deep flaw

a rig can come down on any boat

that's ridiculous

small problems can often lead to a hull loss - sometimes the boat might be deeply flawed, but often it's a simple fix

i think this is more like the simple fix

we were told that water flowing down into one of the hulls was a significant factor in wanting to get off

the door didn't work

ok - design a better door for keeping water from draining into the hulls

if the washboards ripped out on a mono hull would you say it's deeply flawed, or would you build new/better washboards?

everyone is entitled to their opinion - i know you have done a lot of ocean sailing.., so have I.., and I would sail on the ocean on this boat, with a better washboard system

it sounds like you wouldn't want to come along - ok that's fine

 

[Boo-Yah]

Even if fatally damaged by the freighter, I would think there would be large pieces of boat afloat. The starboard hull was undamaged, as I understand. I'm surprised a big chunk of boat wasn't spotted near the debris field.

Have you ever tried even once to find something after losing sight of it in the ocean...

 

[jzk]

What chunks of a Guboat would you expect to float? Their new proprietary lighter-than-water carbon fiber?

Even if fatally damaged by the freighter, I would think there would be large pieces of boat afloat. The starboard hull was undamaged, as I understand. I'm surprised a big chunk of boat wasn't spotted near the debris field.

 

[fastyacht]

corecell floats...

It sounds like there was no coaming or "sill height" at that opening into the hull. If that is the case, that's just stupid.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

Of interest, perhaps. This is what is left of SV Sirocco, abandoned off Oz last October. Recently found by the Sea Shepherd people. It would appear that the back fell off. Hmmm?

 

[Walkabout08]

Does this event lead to the conclusion this boat's design is flawed for an off-shore capable catamaran?

Let's review:

• Rig comes down (this is nothing extraordinary, happens regularly, offshore and inshore)

• Crashes onto cabin top, breaks the big picture window, flooding main salon and electrics (this is now a catastrophic failure.

It appears no provision has been made to handle such an event) the window is now a 3'x4' hole to the North Atlantic.

• Starboard engine won't start, port engine does start, crew fails to ensure the prop won't tangle and so prop gets wrapped (this seems an avoidable crew mistake) and port engine is now out of commission (not catastrophic)

• Starboard engine is eventually started but stalls out (seems odd unless there was water being ingested by the intake air)

• Weather forecast is for more bad and possibly worse weather (this is the North Atlantic in mid-winter, nothing unusual here).

• Experienced delivery captain comes to the conclusion to abandon ship (same place and same conclusion as the recent Kiwi nutcases came to)

• Outcome: all crew safely rescued, vessel has not been found and appears a total loss (pretty much a regular occurrence in those waters).

In review: with one catastrophic failure of the main salon window the yacht is ultimately lost. It seems to me Either one of two things is true: the lack of a pre-departure damage control plan for this event is evidence of a lack of planning on the part of its crew or the design of these windows is not suitable for an off-shore vessel.

I'll never be in a position for afford a GB but if I were headed offshore, even in summer, it wouldn't be on this boat as designed.

 

[Boo-Yah]

Does this event lead to the conclusion this boat's design is flawed for an off-shore capable catamaran?

Let's review:

• Rig comes down (this is nothing extraordinary, happens regularly, offshore and inshore)

• Crashes onto cabin top, breaks the big picture window, flooding main salon and electrics (this is now a catastrophic failure.

It appears no provision has been made to handle such an event) the window is now a 3'x4' hole to the North Atlantic.

• Starboard engine won't start, port engine does start, crew fails to ensure the prop won't tangle and so prop gets wrapped (this seems an avoidable crew mistake) and port engine is now out of commission (not catastrophic)

• Starboard engine is eventually started but stalls out (seems odd unless there was water being ingested by the intake air)

• Weather forecast is for more bad and possibly worse weather (this is the North Atlantic in mid-winter, nothing unusual here).

• Experienced delivery captain comes to the conclusion to abandon ship (same place and same conclusion as the recent Kiwi nutcases came to)

• Outcome: all crew safely rescued, vessel has not been found and appears a total loss (pretty much a regular occurrence in those waters).

In review: with one catastrophic failure of the main salon window the yacht is ultimately lost. It seems to me Either one of two things is true: the lack of a pre-departure damage control plan for this event is evidence of a lack of planning on the part of its crew or the design of these windows is not suitable for an off-shore vessel.

I'll never be in a position for afford a GB but if I were headed offshore, even in summer, it wouldn't be on this boat as designed.

Not it all odd on the engine in 2015... there were notes of salt water intrusion. Salt water was coming in through the window opening and through conduits open up when the mast imploded. The modern engine with so many electrical controls and failsafes can shut itself down for many reasons. There are both benefits and drawbacks. The boat had been in a disrupted sea state for hours. There could have easily been fuel quality or supply issues with the first tank shake up in sometime or maybe ever. Maybe add Rainmaker to a long list of boats that have had engine trouble show up after just a few hours offshore..

 

[Trickypig]

It's a big ocean and many boats have been abandoned and found months later.

Cheeki Rafiki was looked for and not found until months later. MAIB still not released on that one?

My money is on it being found.

Edit: Just looked at UK MAIB website. Investigation on Cheeky Rafiki incident completed and is in `consultation' process. Which means to be released soon...

 

[Keith]

They eventually found Ramtha and towed her in and gave her back to her owners....

 

[Trickypig]

that's ridiculous

we were told that water flowing down into one of the hulls was a significant factor in wanting to get off

That's not quite true but if there was no lip to the companionway then this could be a concern.

The only reference to the issue:

"The port forward window is gone. We were getting rainwater and salt spray in the salon

The port companionway hatch could be an issue if seas get bigger. George checks the port hull bilges for water. There is none."