House Salad
Anarchist
The window was much bigger than 3' X 4'. I thought the nutcases were Australian, not Kiwi.
RAINMAKER DISMASTED OFF HATTERAS IN GALE
- Thread starter DryArmour
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Edith Bicknell
Banned
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Then why the fuck pay for all that disruptive technology on board!! ???
Edith Bicknell
Banned
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Why are you focusing on that point ? What about the others?
Lookout!! There's a massive spinning prop just feet behind you!
NoStrings
Super Anarchist
Maybe it's just me, but I've always considered those boards under the bunks and settees to be sacrificial...IOW, they're boat salvage materials. Port blown out? Screw this piece of marine ply over it.
If it were me, my prime directive (thank you Mr. Spock) would be to 1) get the rig off of the boat, then 2) keep the water out, at all costs, 3) get the crew settled and a recovery plan underway. I might issue a pan pan at that point.
I can't believe, that CB, with all of his acclaimed experience would do anything different. If you sail, you save the boat, where the fuck else are you going to go?
What this massively edited narrative tells me is that the backstory is where the decisions were made. The owner had to have pulled the trigger, and given the alleged debris field, I would wonder if this unsinkable piece of disruptive technology were scuttled.
If it were me, my prime directive (thank you Mr. Spock) would be to 1) get the rig off of the boat, then 2) keep the water out, at all costs, 3) get the crew settled and a recovery plan underway. I might issue a pan pan at that point.
I can't believe, that CB, with all of his acclaimed experience would do anything different. If you sail, you save the boat, where the fuck else are you going to go?
What this massively edited narrative tells me is that the backstory is where the decisions were made. The owner had to have pulled the trigger, and given the alleged debris field, I would wonder if this unsinkable piece of disruptive technology were scuttled.
The focus on water coming into the saloon shouldn't be as big an issue. It's when it gets down the companionway and into the hulls that you have a sinking issue.
The electronics/electrics failure should be installed in any pilothouse with some thoughts of weatherproofing and even then it is really only the radio battery, starter battery and engine panels that need the most attention for weatherproofing.
Cold food, hand steering, manual winches and hand held GPS are the worst hardships, otherwise.
The electronics/electrics failure should be installed in any pilothouse with some thoughts of weatherproofing and even then it is really only the radio battery, starter battery and engine panels that need the most attention for weatherproofing.
Cold food, hand steering, manual winches and hand held GPS are the worst hardships, otherwise.
Full agreement on all points.
OK; not so sure about the scuttling, but it is possible.
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furr_ball
Member
I wonder what is the back up steering on a GB55?
Where do you put that emergency tiller? if you even have one on your world circum-disrupto-navi-condomaran.
Look I think they look as cool as hell, I just wonder if we sort of forgot some of the real world back up processes that you need on boats out in the ocean.
6m plus waves? strong wind? what are the chances of that? in the ocean of all places....
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205guy
New member
From the pictures posted, it looks like the big red button can't be reached from the helm because of the huge display consoles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYZnz2L3-vA
"Dream maker, heart-breaker, you would take everything away..."
I tried to resist the urge to out myself, but I think the aptly titled "Don't Suppose" by Erasure is much more appropriate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYZnz2L3-vA
"Dream maker, heart-breaker, you would take everything away..."
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I don't think that the steering was ever down.
Since it is a sailboat it's either manual hydraulic or chain and cable/dyneema. Either way steering should have been just fine.
emergency tillers… Now there's an issue. I'm not much of a multi sailor; maybe someone else knows the common setup.
furr_ball
Member
Agree, steering was not a problem.
Was just taking it further to discuss what options there are in an emergency situation.
Given they had electrical issues it just made me wonder what are the backups on these boats?
A lot of systems appear to be electrical / hydraulic, which are great when they are working.
What do you do when these fail?
For example, is there a manual bilge pump?
Was just taking it further to discuss what options there are in an emergency situation.
Given they had electrical issues it just made me wonder what are the backups on these boats?
A lot of systems appear to be electrical / hydraulic, which are great when they are working.
What do you do when these fail?
For example, is there a manual bilge pump?
Maltese52
Member
DDW It's correct that corecell floats and highly likely that even if boat suffered structural damage from collision with ship during rescue attempt the boat would continue floating (albeit with about 80% of the hull under water IF both hulls were completely flooded and all seacocks opened...anyone doubting that can layup a foam composite panel and leave it floating in a bucket of seawater for several months to test the theory) I also doubt a large well built carbon structure could be torn apart by the seas to the point it was just debris without being beaten against rocks and lee shore. In all likelyhood it's still out there partially submerged and a potential hazard to navigation. I'd like to think given the knowledge of (complete) unsinkability that someone should/could have setup a way to track the boat but I guess that is easy to forget about in the heat of the moment but perhaps should be a consideration for most modern multihulls.
Christian
Super Anarchist
Dude - don't be a complete idiot - while it may be possible to sail a star to Bermuda it is in no way shape or form a proper boat for being more than 10 miles from the dock - everyone, who has ever sailed one knows that. Hyperbole like the shit you just posted makes you stand out as an idiot - hope your post was just made in jest..............the relevance to the issue at hand is nilHmmm, interesting thought. With reefing gear, I have no doubt a prepared Star could make Bermuda in decent weather. I've seen a Star weather a 50+ knot thunderstorm under full sail, although the sails were trashed afterward. Rig would not be a problem if you're very carefull. Accomodations would leave a lot to be desired.Uffa Fox sailed an Int 14 across the English Channel and back in the 30s. They had ballasted CBs and roller reefing back then.For open ocean sailing - I would say YES
(I actually once was asked to sail a Star to Bermuda ages ago. I said GTFO!)
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Sneeze on a Star and the rig goes over…Dude - don't be a complete idiot - while it may be possible to sail a star to Bermuda it is in no way shape or form a proper boat for being more than 10 miles from the dock - everyone, who has ever sailed one knows that. Hyperbole like the shit you just posted makes you stand out as an idiot - hope your post was just made in jest..............Hmmm, interesting thought. With reefing gear, I have no doubt a prepared Star could make Bermuda in decent weather. I've seen a Star weather a 50+ knot thunderstorm under full sail, although the sails were trashed afterward. Rig would not be a problem if you're very carefull. Accomodations would leave a lot to be desired.Uffa Fox sailed an Int 14 across the English Channel and back in the 30s. They had ballasted CBs and roller reefing back then.For open ocean sailing - I would say YES
(I actually once was asked to sail a Star to Bermuda ages ago. I said GTFO!)
NoStrings
Super Anarchist
Tell that to the Mexican that sailed a Finn to the Marquesas.Dude - don't be a complete idiot - while it may be possible to sail a star to Bermuda it is in no way shape or form a proper boat for being more than 10 miles from the dock - everyone, who has ever sailed one knows that. Hyperbole like the shit you just posted makes you stand out as an idiot - hope your post was just made in jest..............Hmmm, interesting thought. With reefing gear, I have no doubt a prepared Star could make Bermuda in decent weather. I've seen a Star weather a 50+ knot thunderstorm under full sail, although the sails were trashed afterward. Rig would not be a problem if you're very carefull. Accomodations would leave a lot to be desired.Uffa Fox sailed an Int 14 across the English Channel and back in the 30s. They had ballasted CBs and roller reefing back then.For open ocean sailing - I would say YES
(I actually once was asked to sail a Star to Bermuda ages ago. I said GTFO!)
You may be touching on a mindset that was aboard Rainmaker. i.e. this boat works because of all the systems… and when they all went down it makes the boat seem inoperative. However the boat mostly doesn't need them.
1.Rudder : OK
2.Rig: I've never had to jury rig a boat offshore but I see it often enough. I should imagine with some ingenuity they could have achieved something workable even if the boat only did 4 knots with it. Just ask several French single handers.
3.Watertightness: Again, something jury rigged here. ie Jam the companionway door shut, caulk it with rags and don't use the port hull. Or close it as best you can and expect to do a bit of pumping now and again. Perhaps screw sailcloth over it.
Surely the boat has manual bilge pumps, some rag to clean the saloon sole off (bedding?). Surely they'd carry a sea anchor since cats lie to them so well. Surely they carried carry tools, handheld GPS, foulies to do watches in a somewhat less dry saloon and harnesses.
They had to make an assessment about risk of rescue verses risk of staying aboard. I think whilst it all ended well, the episode with the ship could have ended badly and made jury rigging the boat and sailing home seem the safer option.
… and don't call me Shirley
Christian
Super Anarchist
What does that have to do with a multi million dollar toy that was damaged and abandoned due to hubris and lack of the ability to take the brochure claims with a grain of salt?
joneisberg
Super Anarchist
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That was one of my first thoughts when this story broke, as well, but now I'm not so sure... Mr Johnstone claims, after all, as proven by having ridden out 70 knot "gales" in the North Atlantic on other Gunboats, that the preferred tactic is to raise the boards, simply lie ahull, and let the boat 'skid' sideways, if I am reading that correctly. If RAINMAKER had been left to lie ahull with the starboard hull to weather, seems that the risk of getting too much water through the port companionway could have been minimized considerably...
Lying ahull might have also posed less risk to seas sweeping up onto the patio deck via the transom staircases, and made opening the starboard engine hatch to deal with that engine's issues a bit easier... Also, in the event conditions began to moderate sufficiently to consider putting someone overboard to deal with the fouled prop on the port side, there would likely be far less pitching at the ends of the hulls with the boat in that orientation, rather than lying head to the seas with a para-anchor... And finally, as mentioned earlier, I have my doubts about how long those folding bow cleats would have stood up to the potential forces of lying to a para-anchor in heavy conditions, anyway...
Additionally, one of the advantages of a multihull, is that the props are reasonably accessible from the water surface... Had they stayed with the boat, RAINMAKER could have benefited greatly from slapping one of these on the end of a standard extendable pole... Every boat with a prop reachable from the surface with a boat pole should have something similar aboard, IMO... And I would guess the owner of a $2.5 million boat could probably afford to have one custom-made with a ceramic blade, to deal that disruptive mass of high-tech rope...
I'll give CB the benefit of the doubt, and presume he intended to say "drogue", instead of "drone", in the interview
However, it was a bit surprising that he seemed to make no distinction between lying head to sea with a sea anchor, or running off to a drogue. A minor semantic detail, of course, but the interview reads as if what most understand a speed-limiting drogue can be intended to stream off the bow, as well...What is apparent, however, is his ruling out the option of running off to a drogue, due to his concerns over "bring(ing) the stern up and bring(ing) water into the boat..." That's still perhaps the single biggest liability to this design for offshore sailing, in my opinion...
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jrtaylor
New member
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Offshore on a multihull? With those picture windows?
Design flaws; see above.
A multihull doesn't get "rolled". Portholes are small for a reason.
My old man and I were talking about bringing his pilot schooner over to Europe from the Northwest. He wanted to make the cockpit smaller. Smaller. Right.
PS: Loved the Smeeton video.
Design flaws; see above.
A multihull doesn't get "rolled". Portholes are small for a reason.
My old man and I were talking about bringing his pilot schooner over to Europe from the Northwest. He wanted to make the cockpit smaller. Smaller. Right.
PS: Loved the Smeeton video.
