RAINMAKER DISMASTED OFF HATTERAS IN GALE

[RKoch]

For open ocean sailing - I would say YES

(I actually once was asked to sail a Star to Bermuda ages ago. I said GTFO!)

I don't get it. The boat failed in the forecast and expected conditions yet they boldly claim they would go do it again in the same conditions. Think they may have drunk the GB cool aid?

Do we know? Did the boat fail or did the helmsman on watch allow the boat to go through an uncontrolled gybe in changing and severe weather weather?

Until someone credible puts a stake in the ground on why or how the rig failed we do not know. One thing interesting. One of the most respected yacht designers alive post very early on the thread. Then nothing from the experienced and educated on yacht design. I can take you out on a Star Boat and break a rig in seconds. Does that mean all Star Boats are deeply flawed?

Hmmm, interesting thought. With reefing gear, I have no doubt a prepared Star could make Bermuda in decent weather. I've seen a Star weather a 50+ knot thunderstorm under full sail, although the sails were trashed afterward. Rig would not be a problem if you're very carefull. Accomodations would leave a lot to be desired.Uffa Fox sailed an Int 14 across the English Channel and back in the 30s. They had ballasted CBs and roller reefing back then.

Dude - don't be a complete idiot - while it may be possible to sail a star to Bermuda it is in no way shape or form a proper boat for being more than 10 miles from the dock - everyone, who has ever sailed one knows that. Hyperbole like the shit you just posted makes you stand out as an idiot - hope your post was just made in jest..............the relevance to the issue at hand is nil

Webb Chiles sailed an open 18' lugger around the world, I think sailing a Star to Bermuda would be much easier. Yes, I've sailed Stars, as helm and crew. Have competed in the Western Hemisphere Championships and the European Championships. I have no inclination to do it, comfort level is hardcore, but I have no doubt a Star could be sailed to Bermuda...late spring would be the time to do it.

 

[RKoch]

For open ocean sailing - I would say YES

(I actually once was asked to sail a Star to Bermuda ages ago. I said GTFO!)

I don't get it. The boat failed in the forecast and expected conditions yet they boldly claim they would go do it again in the same conditions. Think they may have drunk the GB cool aid?

Do we know? Did the boat fail or did the helmsman on watch allow the boat to go through an uncontrolled gybe in changing and severe weather weather?

Until someone credible puts a stake in the ground on why or how the rig failed we do not know. One thing interesting. One of the most respected yacht designers alive post very early on the thread. Then nothing from the experienced and educated on yacht design. I can take you out on a Star Boat and break a rig in seconds. Does that mean all Star Boats are deeply flawed?

Hmmm, interesting thought. With reefing gear, I have no doubt a prepared Star could make Bermuda in decent weather. I've seen a Star weather a 50+ knot thunderstorm under full sail, although the sails were trashed afterward. Rig would not be a problem if you're very carefull. Accomodations would leave a lot to be desired.Uffa Fox sailed an Int 14 across the English Channel and back in the 30s. They had ballasted CBs and roller reefing back then.

Dude - don't be a complete idiot - while it may be possible to sail a star to Bermuda it is in no way shape or form a proper boat for being more than 10 miles from the dock - everyone, who has ever sailed one knows that. Hyperbole like the shit you just posted makes you stand out as an idiot - hope your post was just made in jest..............

Sneeze on a Star and the rig goes over

Not really. Be carefull with the runners and they stay up. They come down with last minute jibes and crew gets careless. I haven't dropped a rig, even though I've lost an upper shroud. But I'm fairly light for a Star, not very competitive when it's over about 8, so more than that I'm more concerned with taking care of the boat than winning a race.

 

[Edith Bicknell]

Now this thread has guys sailing Stars to Bermuda in late Spring. Pretty soon we'll have

Lasers going over Niagara Falls.

 

[Ismotorsport]

You can't scuttle an unsinkable boat. It's either unsinkable or it isn't.

DDW It's correct that corecell floats and highly likely that even if boat suffered structural damage from collision with ship during rescue attempt the boat would continue floating (albeit with about 80% of the hull under water IF both hulls were completely flooded and all seacocks opened...anyone doubting that can layup a foam composite panel and leave it floating in a bucket of seawater for several months to test the theory) I also doubt a large well built carbon structure could be torn apart by the seas to the point it was just debris without being beaten against rocks and lee shore. In all likelyhood it's still out there partially submerged and a potential hazard to navigation. I'd like to think given the knowledge of (complete) unsinkability that someone should/could have setup a way to track the boat but I guess that is easy to forget about in the heat of the moment but perhaps should be a consideration for most modern multihulls.

Long thread but has anyone officially commented on the scuttlebility of a GB or any other modern foam/carbon multihull in circumstances like this? Wasn't the CW 57 ANNA found after the capsize and later rebuilt or am I getting my cats crossed??

 

[Boo-Yah]

We are done here.. The Front Page has spoken on the subject....

they are faster, and definitely more dangerous which suits many offshore events which label themselves ‘extreme’, meaning they really do need the very best sailors in the world to sail them.

 

[Ismotorsport]

Nevermind.... Found a link.... Anna was capsized and had sizable holes in transoms and stayed afloat... Can't imagine that RM will be any different... Perhaps the whole "boat was lost at sea" attitude is a diversion tactic while a proper salvage effort is taking place??

http://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/lectronicday.lasso?date=2010-08-20#.VPXSz6N5mSM

 

[RKoch]

Now this thread has guys sailing Stars to Bermuda in late Spring. Pretty soon we'll have

Lasers going over Niagara Falls.

A Laser sailed the Everglades Challenge last year (325 miles from Tampa Bay to Key Largo). The guy was doing a fine job, but ran aground so many times in Florida Bay the DB trunk finally split. Had to drop out about 15 miles from the finish.There is a woman on a Sunfish entered this year. A couple of SUPs made the finish last year.

 

[kent_island_sailor]

Arghhhhhhhhh...

I wish I hadn't mentioned the Star delivery job.

The point was the boat is well designed for what it normally does, but not well designed for crossing oceans or parts of oceans.

Kind of like how RM looked to be an awsome wicked fast dayboat, but not a winter North Atlantic boat

 

[Edith Bicknell]

Now this thread has guys sailing Stars to Bermuda in late Spring. Pretty soon we'll have

Lasers going over Niagara Falls.

A Laser sailed the Everglades Challenge last year (325 miles from Tampa Bay to Key Largo). The guy was doing a fine job, but ran aground so many times in Florida Bay the DB trunk finally split. Had to drop out about 15 miles from the finish.There is a woman on a Sunfish entered this year. A couple of SUPs made the finish last year.

That is correct sir! Paddle boards too!
So fucking what?

 

[Canal Bottom]

Now this thread has guys sailing Stars to Bermuda in late Spring. Pretty soon we'll have

Lasers going over Niagara Falls.

A Laser sailed the Everglades Challenge last year (325 miles from Tampa Bay to Key Largo). The guy was doing a fine job, but ran aground so many times in Florida Bay the DB trunk finally split. Had to drop out about 15 miles from the finish.There is a woman on a Sunfish entered this year. A couple of SUPs made the finish last year.

That is correct sir! Paddle boards too!
So fucking what?

It would only be an issue if a builder marketed the crafts as open water family passage boats, the same would be true with wild MacGregor claims involving innocents or any plans to use motorcycles in place of school buses.

 

[On The Hard]

I can take you out on a Star Boat and break a rig in seconds. Does that mean all Star Boats are deeply flawed?

Completely and totally. Not unlike a beautiful woman.

that's why Star sailors love them.

Best Clean post.....ever

 

[Rainier]

I love how Clean keeps saying 15 years ago we never would have heard about this but there are several L38 links doing exactly that...

Or maybe he invented the internet?

 

[RKoch]

I love how Clean keeps saying 15 years ago we never would have heard about this but there are several L38 links doing exactly that...

Or maybe he invented the internet?

Clean probably never read Heavy Weather Sailing, or Total Loss.

 

[davidprobable]

Clean does not read, he interprets. We are blessed by such insight.

 

[Student_Driver]

Are we really discussing problems with the design or hyperbolic marketing claims. In all honesty, a boat designed for any and all Wx. would not be a sexy speed machine. Horses for courses. A more appropriate marketing scheme for the GB55 might have been focused more on the performance coastal cruising and racing.

Any time an architect or engineer designs the break point loads for a boat, they are simultaneously altering the weight and performance of the boat. Light is fast but light is rarely storm proof. The GB55 is performance oriented. As such, additional gear, modified tactics and an abundance of caution would have been prudent.

In my mind, this debate is analogous to an investor buying a high yield bond and then claiming that they did not understand that the additional yield came at a price in risk. Here, additional speed-sexiness comes at a penalty in break point load thresholds.

If the GB55 was meant to be an offshore cruiser, it would look like an Antares 44.

 

[DryArmour]

Are we really discussing problems with the design or hyperbolic marketing claims. In all honesty, a boat designed for any and all Wx. would not be a sexy speed machine. Horses for courses. A more appropriate marketing scheme for the GB55 might have been focused more on the performance coastal cruising and racing.

Any time an architect or engineer designs the break point loads for a boat, they are simultaneously altering the weight and performance of the boat. Light is fast but light is rarely storm proof. The GB55 is performance oriented. As such, additional gear, modified tactics and an abundance of caution would have been prudent.

In my mind, this debate is analogous to an investor buying a high yield bond and then claiming that they did not understand that the additional yield came at a price in risk. Here, additional speed-sexiness comes at a penalty in break point load thresholds.

If the GB55 was meant to be an offshore cruiser, it would look like an Antares 44.

How dare you come into this madhouse and place a well thought out and intellectually sound post that is entirely reasonable.

The inmates will be with you in a moment.

 

[Student_Driver]

DryA, Am girding for the worst...

 

[fastyacht]

Well at least you have 1000 posts. You know the drill.

 

[ropetrick]

Crap, I can't find my pitchfork.

 

[Marinatrix447]

An Antares 44…

?

If the GB55 was meant to be an offshore cruiser, it would look like a SIG60…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxhWxKjsRdI