RAINMAKER DISMASTED OFF HATTERAS IN GALE

[fastyacht]

whatever

 

[joneisberg]

In my mind, this debate is analogous to an investor buying a high yield bond and then claiming that they did not understand that the additional yield came at a price in risk.

If so, then the skipper's assertion that he would have no hesitation to take that boat into that forecast again would be analogous to...???

 

[surfsailor]

In my mind, this debate is analogous to an investor buying a high yield bond and then claiming that they did not understand that the additional yield came at a price in risk.

If so, then the skipper's assertion that he would have no hesitation to take that boat into that forecast again would be analogous to...???

It would be analogous to rolling the dice on yet another wildly risky investment - kinda like Wall Street did in the derivatives market after the Federal government showed their hand during the S&L crisis. Think about it - the crew walked away (well, was flown away via helicopter on the tax payers dime), and no doubt a shiny new boat is already in the works.

 

[Black Sox]

/...

Handle with care though, if you think mega do$$ars million buck luxury glass topped glam Cat’s are tricky-dicky…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RihcJR0zvfM

.../

Hard to tell; was that the back or the front that fell off?

Now this thread has guys sailing Stars to Bermuda in late Spring. Pretty soon we'll have

Lasers going over Niagara Falls.

...sailed by sharks

 

[Ishmael]

/...

Handle with care though, if you think mega do$$ars million buck luxury glass topped glam Cat’s are tricky-dicky…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RihcJR0zvfM

.../

Hard to tell; was that the back or the front that fell off?

Now this thread has guys sailing Stars to Bermuda in late Spring. Pretty soon we'll have

Lasers going over Niagara Falls.

...sailed by sharks

With frickin' laser beams.

 

[Snaggletooth]

/...

Handle with care though, if you think mega do$$ars million buck luxury glass topped glam Cat’s are tricky-dicky…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RihcJR0zvfM

.../

Hard to tell; was that the back or the front that fell off?

Now this thread has guys sailing Stars to Bermuda in late Spring. Pretty soon we'll have

Lasers going over Niagara Falls.

...sailed by sharks

With frickin' laser beams.

sontimes you scarre me......

 

[Ishmael]

/...

Handle with care though, if you think mega do$$ars million buck luxury glass topped glam Cat’s are tricky-dicky…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RihcJR0zvfM

.../

Hard to tell; was that the back or the front that fell off?

Now this thread has guys sailing Stars to Bermuda in late Spring. Pretty soon we'll have

Lasers going over Niagara Falls.

...sailed by sharks

With frickin' laser beams.

sontimes you scarre me......

I'm sorry, isn't this the Department of Redundancy Department?

 

[eastbay]

This is so tedious that I can barely stand to type it.

But after sifting the kernels from the poop, are we left to conclude that it was entirely predictable that the forecast front would overtake the RM given their expected (historical average) speed, and no one is asserting that they would willingly sail into that front?

In other words, even if they hadn't lost the rig they still couldn't have stayed in front of the front? The very system whose imminent arrival was cause to abandon would have caught them anyway so they still would have been in the shit, just different shit.

But they'd do it again?

 

[Ishmael]

This is so tedious that I can barely stand to type it.

But after sifting the kernels from the poop, are we left to conclude that it was entirely predictable that the forecast front would overtake the RM given their expected (historical average) speed, and no one is asserting that they would willingly sail into that front?

In other words, even if they hadn't lost the rig they still couldn't have stayed in front of the front? The very system whose imminent arrival was cause to abandon would have caught them anyway so they still would have been in the shit, just different shit.

But they'd do it again?

Practice makes perfect.

 

[Rawhide]

My apologies if I missed this....Maybe it was and no one expected anyone to actually take them to sea in winter.

They definitely did not do any practice dismastings to see what would break

Without further ado...

http://sailinganarchy.com/2015/03/01/the-last-of-the-rainmaker/

Clean thanks for the link to the front page, I must go there more often, good interview very informative . Your mate CB sure comes off as cocksure. Nothing he can learn from losing a $2m yacht at sea and having to be rescued other than a few minor lessons related to the specific incident and vessel? Just got their assess kicked by ocean and have to brush it off and move on?

I can think of a few lessons he might learn straight up regarding risk assessment, preparation and incident response. Given that things really didn’t go that well after losing the rig, there may be more that only he and the rest of the crew are in a position to know, that is if they are honest enough with themselves.

You are spot on with your observation, not only did they not practice any dismasting, it is clear that they did not even consider the possibility and likely consequences, or appear to have made any preparations for such an eventuality or other contingencies associated with the disruptive technologies employed.

I would have thought that losing a rig at sea is not that inconceivable an eventuality that the consequences need not be considered, or for that matter, smashing a window by other means, or having to face the full effects of a winter gale rather than blithely assuming that you can outrun it.

Losing the mast in itself doesn’t appear to have been that catastrophic, it is the events that followed that combined to cause the loss of RM an as others have pointed out they may well have been deep in shit whether they lost the rig or not.

 

[Ismotorsport]

This is so tedious that I can barely stand to type it.

But after sifting the kernels from the poop, are we left to conclude that it was entirely predictable that the forecast front would overtake the RM given their expected (historical average) speed, and no one is asserting that they would willingly sail into that front?

In other words, even if they hadn't lost the rig they still couldn't have stayed in front of the front? The very system whose imminent arrival was cause to abandon would have caught them anyway so they still would have been in the shit, just different shit.

But they'd do it again?

Very interesting observation eastbay. One that leads back to initial choice of leaving in first place perhaps.

Knowing the probabliity of litigation over this loss Id think an astute lawyer/rep for the insurance company would bring this highly valid point up again for sure.

 

[floater]

... and the fact that the ship hit them. They didn't hit the ship.

 

[scaredsheep]

Wtf does this mean?

A minor semantic detail, of course, but the interview reads as if what most understand a speed-limiting drogue can be intended to stream off the bow, as well...

 

[alphafb552]

Are we really discussing problems with the design or hyperbolic marketing claims. In all honesty, a boat designed for any and all Wx. would not be a sexy speed machine. Horses for courses. A more appropriate marketing scheme for the GB55 might have been focused more on the performance coastal cruising and racing.

Any time an architect or engineer designs the break point loads for a boat, they are simultaneously altering the weight and performance of the boat. Light is fast but light is rarely storm proof. The GB55 is performance oriented. As such, additional gear, modified tactics and an abundance of caution would have been prudent.

In my mind, this debate is analogous to an investor buying a high yield bond and then claiming that they did not understand that the additional yield came at a price in risk. Here, additional speed-sexiness comes at a penalty in break point load thresholds.

If the GB55 was meant to be an offshore cruiser, it would look like an Antares 44.

Everything in this world these days is about risk management - and mitigation is part of that

For 'too big to fail' banks, there is the practical certainty of a government bailout to take into account, and for a GB55, there's always a USCG helo on call.

In that sense, they manage their risks perfectly.

 

[scaredsheep]

St maarten forecasted tws over twenty

Today and tomorrow.

Let's get out those rosaries.

 

[lancelot9898]

While I question the design of this boat for crossing oceans, that is not the weak link. No matter how poorly designed or built for ocean crossings, the weak leak will almost always be the human within. Interesting that the skipper said that he would do this again without any comment about what was wrong with this whole journey. At least he didn't say he "would chase hurricanes".

 

[spike]

There won't be any litigation or investigation as there is nothing to investigate. Even if there was a design failure, the insurance company assumed the risk. They will cut a check to the owner and/or the bank and that's that.

But I'd bet they won't bind policies on GBs or their ilk anymore. Gonna have to go to Lloyds of London to insure disruptive technology type boats now.

There will be subrogation.

 

[Raked Aft\\]

There won't be any litigation or investigation as there is nothing to investigate. Even if there was a design failure, the insurance company assumed the risk. They will cut a check to the owner and/or the bank and that's that.

But I'd bet they won't bind policies on GBs or their ilk anymore. Gonna have to go to Lloyds of London to insure disruptive technology type boats now.

There will be subrogation.

Against whom?

the string of causation entities is long and each one has a strong plausible defense...

GB? most likely, but no direct link to the rig failure.

Hall? Same as GB, lot's of little parts they bought to put the rig together, any one of them could have been the culprit.

Commanders? most likely legal disclaimers out the ass on any routing info they provide

CB? 'Hey i was just following orders at the time' probably not collectible anyway...

The ins co is going to have a legal challenge to pin this on anyone. so most likely gonna cut the check, lick their wounds and move on.

 

[kent_island_sailor]

The difference would have been no helo ride from much further out

This is so tedious that I can barely stand to type it.

But after sifting the kernels from the poop, are we left to conclude that it was entirely predictable that the forecast front would overtake the RM given their expected (historical average) speed, and no one is asserting that they would willingly sail into that front?

In other words, even if they hadn't lost the rig they still couldn't have stayed in front of the front? The very system whose imminent arrival was cause to abandon would have caught them anyway so they still would have been in the shit, just different shit.

But they'd do it again?

 

[Edith Bicknell]

There won't be any litigation or investigation as there is nothing to investigate. Even if there was a design failure, the insurance company assumed the risk. They will cut a check to the owner and/or the bank and that's that.

But I'd bet they won't bind policies on GBs or their ilk anymore. Gonna have to go to Lloyds of London to insure disruptive technology type boats now.

There will be subrogation.

Against whom?

the string of causation entities is long and each one has a strong plausible defense...

GB? most likely, but no direct link to the rig failure.

Hall? Same as GB, lot's of little parts they bought to put the rig together, any one of them could have been the culprit.

Commanders? most likely legal disclaimers out the ass on any routing info they provide

CB? 'Hey i was just following orders at the time' probably not collectible anyway...

The ins co is going to have a legal challenge to pin this on anyone. so most likely gonna cut the check, lick their wounds and move on.

May all be true. But that dosnt stop people from suing in America! If we still had Southbound Herb none of this might have happened!