Rapido Trimarans - 2 x New Folding Models Coming !

[boardhead]

Simple, light, fast accommodating 40’ catamaran? Did any of you guys check out the TRT 1200, it really fits the bill quite well, was out sailing with my friend last Wednesday at speeds at least comparable to 35 - 40’ Dragonflies, Farriers, Corsairs etc.

The TRT is slow compared to my boat but here we go again with the need for light and simple for speed. The pressures for perceived comfort and luxury that owners, potential and actual, bring to commercial boat builders will continue to nix the the availability of really fast offshore trimarans.

I wish Rapido all the very best with their endeavors but it’s a tough wish to fulfill.

 

[toolbar]

Where, how and with whop do you folks cruise? 

With kids that are growing up fast and a planned multi-year cruise, three cabins appear to be key feature to ensure family peace. 

If it was just me and the wife with occasional guests or a shorter cruise (last year we sailed for four month on the trimaran, that was still fine) three hulls would be my first choice. That's why we will keep the trimaran in storage, for when we return. 

Paul 

 

[Wess]

With kids that are growing up fast and a planned multi-year cruise, three cabins appear to be key feature to ensure family peace. 

If it was just me and the wife with occasional guests or a shorter cruise (last year we sailed for four month on the trimaran, that was still fine) three hulls would be my first choice. That's why we will keep the trimaran in storage, for when we return. 

Paul 

That makes sense Paul; I get it.  Our kids have grown and so 2 cabins is all we want.  Thank God as that keep the door open to a tri.

Simple, light, fast accommodating 40’ catamaran? Did any of you guys check out the TRT 1200, it really fits the bill quite well, was out sailing with my friend last Wednesday at speeds at least comparable to 35 - 40’ Dragonflies, Farriers, Corsairs etc.

The TRT is slow compared to my boat but here we go again with the need for light and simple for speed. The pressures for perceived comfort and luxury that owners, potential and actual, bring to commercial boat builders will continue to nix the the availability of really fast offshore trimarans.

I wish Rapido all the very best with their endeavors but it’s a tough wish to fulfill.

Its really hard to explain this.  We had looked very long and hard at TRT when we were on our cat search.  But there is something "joy of sailing" related that you don't get in a big cat and its not about outright speed.  There is a responsiveness and a feeling to the tri... a joy to sail that I don't don't get in the bigger cats.  My wife would say exact same.  The cats can be as fast but its like helming a bus.  Fast bus but still a bus.  The Miata might actually be slower but its more fun to drive than the bus. And that one factor more than anything is what finally convinced us we were not buying a cat and instead bought a bigger tri.

 

[boardhead]

I totally agree Wess,  Tiller - our St Francis Cat is the current active option and the auto pilot steers her - all the time. Being a bigger boat with two (small) inboard diesels passage times are not that different from our trimaran but she is a snore compared

I will never tire of being wowed by the speed and responsiveness of the tri but it’s a younger guy’s tool and I well recall the day that I was having a blast driving her upwind in the mid teens through a decent chop when a cry from below announced my wife’s frustration at being pitched off the settee onto the floor whilst trying to read her book - she has been wowed enough!

Oh, I still have to say that 25 years ago and for more than a decade, the tri was a perfect fit.

 

[EarthBM]

Market 1: liveaboard world cruisers with 3 kids.

Market 2: weekend husband+wife cruisers

I’d say Market 2 is 100x1000x larger than Market 1 in practice. However it’s hard to justify $600-800k cost for a weekend toy. So buyers rationalize boat purchase as a second home.

Rapido 40 (if displacement and cost projections pan out) is likely to be successful. But a clever marketing stratagem may be required.

 

[KC375]

That makes sense Paul; I get it.  Our kids have grown and so 2 cabins is all we want.  Thank God as that keep the door open to a tri.

Its really hard to explain this.  We had looked very long and hard at TRT when we were on our cat search.  But there is something "joy of sailing" related that you don't get in a big cat and its not about outright speed.  There is a responsiveness and a feeling to the tri... a joy to sail that I don't don't get in the bigger cats.  My wife would say exact same.  The cats can be as fast but its like helming a bus.  Fast bus but still a bus.  The Miata might actually be slower but its more fun to drive than the bus. And that one factor more than anything is what finally convinced us we were not buying a cat and instead bought a bigger tri.

That’s a great analogy.  I had one of the first Miatas (1990) and a few since, but our “second” car was a minivan. If we had to go down to one car it would be the minivan.  The Rapido would be great if I brought at most half of my family...with the whole family its about finding the least boring cat / bus / minivan. (Our Sienna is perfectly serviceable and the vehicle of choice for many outings but never for just two of us)

 

[MultiThom]

If "getting there is half the fun", then I'd say a big tri is the better cruiser for you.  If not and you just want to move your home from place to place, a big cat makes more sense--but then again, plane tickets and rental houses make the most sense (for me anyway). 

 

[socalrider]

We searched forever for a bridgedeck cat with great sailing qualities, and simple systems, and it simply does not exist at any price.  

That seems to be the design brief for the MaineCat 38 - curious if you were able to check one out.  

Interesting to hear the comments on responsiveness and "fun to sail" aspect of the tri vs cat.  I've got much more limited multihull experience than most of you, but I suspect it's the feedback you get from the heeling angle of a tri, which is nice because it's familiar to mono sailers, and also more linear than a cat.  

I keep getting tempted by big cats like the Seawind 1160 since I know my wife and kids would have so much fun on one which means I'd probably get to spend more time on the boat.  But every time I see one sailing I reconsider.  Agree with the Miata comments - I've owned three NAs.  The Rapidos look fantastic!

 

[Russell Brown]

I personally think Catamaran design was way better back in the early eighties ! Most cats these days are fat and heavy from trying to cram too much in to them ! My old Parralax 11 designed by Robin Chamberlin was a way better sailing boat than most new cruising cats these days because it was kept simple and light ! Still did the job as a cruising boat , twin diesels , fridge freezer , every thing needed to cruise in comfort but still performed very well. 36 ft cruising cat that weighed 8400 lbs (4000 Kg )

Its really hard to explain this.  We had looked very long and hard at TRT when we were on our cat search.  But there is something "joy of sailing" related that you don't get in a big cat and its not about outright speed.  There is a responsiveness and a feeling to the tri... a joy to sail that I don't don't get in the bigger cats.  My wife would say exact same.  The cats can be as fast but its like helming a bus.  Fast bus but still a bus.  The Miata might actually be slower but its more fun to drive than the bus. And that one factor more than anything is what finally convinced us we were not buying a cat and instead bought a bigger tri.

I agree with both of these. I don't have a good reaction to modern cruising catamarans, either how they look or how they sail, especially how they feel when sailing. A trimaran can feel like sailing a monohull, just faster and so much better control downwind. Plus there's a place to put the headstay and it only needs one daggerboard and one rudder.

 

[eastern motors]

I'm with Seagull here. I have not yet seen a convincing trimaran layout with 3+ proper cabins. 

@Paul Koch is there a chance to cram two distinct cabins to port and starboard into the back? Or does the folding mechanism forbid a wider hull in that part? 

I would love to get a big Rapido/Newick/Hughes tri for our cruising plans, but I guess that it will have to be a catamaran for a few years to fulfill our space requirements. 

Paul 

http://www.multihulldesigns.com/designs_stock/71tri.html

 

[randii]

A trimaran can feel like sailing a monohull, just faster and so much better control downwind. 

Huh. Does that have value in and of itself? I suppose the dinghy I grew up in steeped me in monomaran-ish experience, but even then, I lusted after the Hobie 14s from scout camp, and got hours on them when I could. When I've crewed on boats in the Bay, I've taken what I could get (more monos avilble than multis) but when it comes to voting with my hard-earned dollars... every boat has been a multihull thus far, at least if it has been bigger than a kayak, canoe, or inflatable. When I'm dreaming, it is in multihulls.

I like sailing flat -- or flying a hull when conditions permit, and choosing[/i[ to tilt, rather than having to lean. I only have a week or so of offshore time on a 39' cat, and my 30' Tennant is still trailer-bound, so let me ask: what is it particularly that you dislike about modern cruising catamarans, how they look , sail, or feel when sailing? Is it just the motion, the centralized weight or low clearance of a centralized bridgedeck, or?





Randii

 

[SeaGul]

I have some good experience with TRT1200 - mostly the GT version. A fantastic boat - lots of space - but driving it is more the bus feel - as again a fast trimaran is like a sports-car - or a R-bike.

Under 20ft - its cats that dominate - and a beach cat is all a multi can be - fast and fun, and relatively cheap. 

Passing 20ft and with the possibility for some interior space - gives us tris - still light fast and responsive.

At around 30ft you can have fast cats like Raider 30 - with some interior - but still fast and responsive if they are light and hav proper sails. 

At 40 - you can have a Formula 40 cat - or a condomaran, most tri is still performance orientated and fun. For the condomaran - it seems like all hope of good sailing is gone - but a danish multihull designer Lars Oudrup - MyCat - Havkatt - has a Lagoon 38 . went around the world with it and did well in ARC regatta. And outsails fast like bigger X boats in local regattas when its  fresh - even upwind - so all hope is not out even for these boats - given you get a good set of sail and want to use them. 

 

[Kalimotxo]

Here is one heretical thought: my family wants to travel an extended period of time by boat.

Well informed analysis leads to a boat where no one touches the helm because it is boring to sail.

Am I to come to the rational conclusion to buy a motorboat and put two fabulous sailing dinghys on deck, that make everyone in my family smile?

h34r:

 

[SeaGul]

Boring at the helm?    

 

[Training Wheels]

I’m certainly no multihull guru, but we do cruise on a tri, one we’ve owned for 9 years. The tri tells us when it’s not happy, like a mono. We can push it harder knowing that we will feel the boat getting overpowered before capsize is a concern. Perhaps that’s not true on tri’s designed to fly the main hull, but it is on our cruising tri. Did I mention we can sail at or above wind speed in light air with just main and jib? Or no brigedeck slamming, ever?

 

[Wess]

That seems to be the design brief for the MaineCat 38 - curious if you were able to check one out.  

Interesting to hear the comments on responsiveness and "fun to sail" aspect of the tri vs cat.  I've got much more limited multihull experience than most of you, but I suspect it's the feedback you get from the heeling angle of a tri, which is nice because it's familiar to mono sailers, and also more linear than a cat.  

I keep getting tempted by big cats like the Seawind 1160 since I know my wife and kids would have so much fun on one which means I'd probably get to spend more time on the boat.  But every time I see one sailing I reconsider.  Agree with the Miata comments - I've owned three NAs.  The Rapidos look fantastic!

We considered both the MC 38 and 41.  Have friends with each.  Also considered the Seawind line.  But ultimately went the trimaran route.  For somebody who has not sailed a tri its really hard to grasp and I don't do a good job explaining it.  Sailing a decent performance cat is not as bad as Kalimotxo wonders below.  There are lots of things any of these boats - TRT, Seawind, MC, GB, HH, TS, Outremer, Catana, etc... do really really well at varied price points.  I could see myself owning one again.  Its less that all cats suck - they don't - its that the tri can be so amazingly wonderful.  After owning and sailing both (first cats then the tri) or my wife and I, having fallen in love with the sailing qualities of the tri, we just had to see if we could make one cruisable.  And we found a project that would not hurt the bank account and so gave it a go.  Sooooooo very glad we did.

If you have sailed dinghies and like tillers and want to cruise but haven't sailed a tri... go check one out!

Here is one heretical thought: my family wants to travel an extended period of time by boat.

Well informed analysis leads to a boat where no one touches the helm because it is boring to sail.

Am I to come to the rational conclusion to buy a motorboat and put two fabulous sailing dinghys on deck, that make everyone in my family smile?

h34r:

 

[boardhead]

So watching that Verbatim/Bullfrog video (again) and having designed, built and sailed a boat so similar for so long I have to wonder how any commercial builder would feel at the prospect of one of their products being subjected to that kind of treatment. I took Chris White for a ride years ago and his comment at the end of the day - "It would be irresponsible to sell a boat built that lightly to the public!"

These are serious toys for driven people, not that popular today and perhaps a dying breed - but soooooooo much fun.

 

[eric1207]

That seems to be the design brief for the MaineCat 38 - curious if you were able to check one out.  

I think there will be a MC38 at our rally.  Come look it over.  Can't speak for the owner but he was looking for crew.  Easy drive from Seattle.  Ten bucks for pizza dinner.  Link here.  I'm leaving now, maybe maybe make contact via the email in the link   Apologies for being a tireless/tiresome promoter.

I do like the Rapido 40 though, hmmmmmm, my F31 is getting to be a lot of work for this old man, maybe.........

 

[Veeger]

I think there will be a MC38 at our rally.  Come look it over.  Can't speak for the owner but he was looking for crew.  Easy drive from Seattle.  Ten bucks for pizza dinner.  Link here.  I'm leaving now, maybe maybe make contact via the email in the link   Apologies for being a tireless/tiresome promoter.

I do like the Rapido 40 though, hmmmmmm, my F31 is getting to be a lot of work for this old man, maybe.........

Wish I didn't have an already fully booked weekend or there'd be two 38's at your rally!

Having owned an F-28cc, a full on cruising cat and now the 38, I'd say the 38 is a pretty good bridge between the two.  With hulls only 3' wide at the lwl, a bit of wind pressure will depress the lee hull enough that you actually get a little heel going (for a cat).  The cable steering is so balanced and easy to sail with just two fingers like on a well balanced helm with tiller.  Having about 2/3rds of a full turn from hard over to hard over makes maintaining course a matter of turning the wheel rim a couple inches if needed.

However, Wess has found a very good solution for performance, feel and room.  If I had another cat, I'd really like to have a slightly longer (35,36') 'Gougeon 32' concept with about 10' beam.  Russ' 32 is probably the only cat with cruising capability (albeit spartan) that also looks to offer every bit of sailing enjoyment as a tri.

 

[gurok]

The new Rapido tri's look splendid and I look forward to seeing the 40 up close.

Having just finished launching a new offshore tri and knowing of two other new tri owners who faced the same predicament ( 1 UK based and 1 in Australia ), I can fairly confidently say that at the moment, one of the biggest barriers for new offshore tri ownership will be lack of available insurance. We found cover in the end but it was not an easy task, terms are paved with extra conditions and it was pretty expensive for what you are getting. God forbid you want to race. One other owner had to withdraw from this years AZAB race because he could not get any terms for his older tri.

There's no doubt that trimarans are fast and fun but getting insurance companies to cover them comprehensively for offshore sailing is a major ball ache.