RBBS Ethical Dilemma?

[Fairplay?]

Rolex Big Boat Series 2022 Ethical Dilemma?

Here’s the situation.

The SI’s clearly define a restricted area as the zone around Piers 39 and 43 ½ which is marked by temporary white buoys. These buoys are placed by the race committee in order to keep competitors away from the commercial ferry traffic coming in and out of that area. Whereas in prior years, boats were allowed to enter the area as long as they came back out to pass to the outside of each buoy, this year’s SIs forbid boats from going between these white buoys.

8. AREAS THAT ARE OBSTRUCTIONS [NP] [DP] ​

​

Each line bound by the following two points is designated as an obstruction. Boats are prohibited from crossing any of these lines while racing.​

​

j. The white temporary buoy off of Pier 39 mentioned in SI 8.h and the white temporary buoy off of Pier 43-1/2 mentioned in SI 8.i.​

But the SI’s, for some reason, make this a “NP” rule, meaning that a competitor cannot file a protest relating to it.

The notation [NP] in a rule in the SI means it shall not be grounds for protest by a boat. This changes RRS 60.1(a).​

In race 4 you find yourself pinned on the wrong side of the course and are going up the city front when most of the fleet is getting relief from the flood tide in the cone. You seek relief from the flood by sailing in towards Piers 39 and 41 ½, extending well inside the restricted area. By doing so, you gain a substantial advantage vs. those boats on the city front that stay outside of the restricted area.

Several boats saw your infraction. One pulled a flag and hailed protest, but none filed because of the NP restriction.

You are able to claw back to finish 3rd in that race and go on to win the regatta nine points ahead of the 2nd place boat in a very large fleet. Other than this race, you’ve sailed a nearly flawless regatta and absolutely deserve to win the Rolex.

What do you do?

 

[hokie]

Is it okay to cheat?

 

[basketcase]

“You haven’t won the race, if in winning the race you have lost the respect of your competitors.”

 

[duncan (the other one)]

... shall not be grounds for protest by a boat, alters 60.1(a)



60.1 A boat may
..
(c) report to the protest committee requesting action under
rule 60.3(d) or 69.2(b).

Note that the above is report, not protest.


69 MISCONDUCT
69.1 Obligation not to Commit Misconduct; Resolution
(a) A competitor, boat owner or support person shall not
commit an act of misconduct.
(b) Misconduct is:
(1) conduct that is a breach of good manners, a breach
of good sportsmanship, or unethical behaviour; or
(2) conduct that may bring, or has brought, the sport into
disrepute.
(c) An allegation of a breach of rule 69.1(a) shall be resolved
in accordance with the provisions of rule 69. It shall not be
grounds for a protest and rule 63.1 does not apply

Note the removal of 63.1 -- no hearing is required to make a decision, and because its not a protest, those time limits do not apply.

 

[Ex Machina]

Trumped the whole fleet there and a clear “breach of good manners “

 

[Chris in Santa Cruz CA]

I once accidentally did not go back out from the beach to go through start/finish on an upwind leg and gained significant advantage in light air in a Soling one design race. No one protested but Dave Whale who was course setter and race committee all in one that day stopped by my boat in the whaler towing three big orange marks on his way to the hoist and told me what I did not do In the nicest way. No hesitation, I dnf’d myself from that race.

the city front can be gruesome especially by the concrete wall bending around and the tide relief and flat water of the piers is a welcome sight. It’s a shame they blocked off a prime section of that stretch but if that skipper was reminded by his competition that a rule was broken and did not withdraw from that race then that’s just bad

if I were running that race I would put a race committee volunteer with a set of binoculars at the end of the jetty in a lawn chair and golf umbrella and just have them grab sail numbers of folks crossing into the no go zone and tell the competitors they will be dq’d Ahead of time if they get nabbed. No need to protest.

 

[stinky]

the J-105 fleet exists so people like this can sail in it and spare the rest of us.

 

[basketcase]

Oh.... And fuck off newbie, show us your girlfriend's tits. Coming in here asking a question like that.....

 

[FlyingCircus2]

On a 109 I sail on, the race committee set a Windward leeward, but put up the sign saying you had to round the windward mark to *starboard*. We didn't see that so we sailed a normal race.

We were half way down the course again and everyone behind us went the other way around the mark.

We finished and withdrew. Everyone still knows we beat them.

 

[Black Sox]

On a 109 I sail on, the race committee set a Windward leeward, but put up the sign saying you had to round the windward mark to *starboard*. We didn't see that so we sailed a normal race.

We were half way down the course again and everyone behind us went the other way around the mark.

We finished and withdrew. Everyone still knows we beat them.

Everyone still knows you could have beaten them, but didn't because you sailed the wrong course.

 

[Snaggletooth]

the J-105 fleet exists so people like this can sail in it and spare the rest of us.

you sounde licke accolyte of Msgr Expo.

 

[Foredeck Shuffle]

the J-105 fleet exists so people like this can sail in it and spare the rest of us.

J/105 the old age version of the J/24.

 

[basketcase]

Everyone still knows you could have beaten them, but didn't because you sailed the wrong course.

A buddy of mine has a special Olympics gold medal from a pro/am race because his boat was the only one to go the right way....

 

[MR.CLEAN]

Everyone still knows you could have beaten them, but didn't because you sailed the wrong course.

Was Neil Degrasse-Tyson on your boat or the other boat?

 

[TJSoCal]

Basic Principles, Sportsmanship and the Rules: Competitors in the sport of sailing are governed by a body of rules that they are expected to follow and enforce. A fundamental principle of sportsmanship is that when a boat breaks a rule and is not exonerated she will promptly take an appropriate penalty or action, which may be to retire.

 

[Chris in Santa Cruz CA]

A buddy of mine has a special Olympics gold medal from a pro/am race because his boat was the only one to go the right way....

We won a race by literally a mile in the Big Daddy Regatta way back when in SF Bay on Irrational, a Peterson 1 ton plus. We were definitely not sailing to our rating that day in light air and were trailing the pack as they were headed south of Angel Island towards Pt Richmond to what they thought was the next mark. My string pulling partner looked left up Racoon Straight and saw a mark, ran downstairs to read the race instructions and the day's course route, came running up and said, "Now, no one point or move around at all but directly off the port beam up the straight is our mark, I am sure of it.". So, the tactician looks at the wind direction and the mark and says to hoist the light #1 as quietly as possible. We do this and then just turn to the mark and slowly float drop the chute into the cockpit and tight reach to the mark. It took everyone else over 5 minutes to determine that one boat knew the course and 15-20 boats didn't. The fact that before this most of the crew was sitting on the cabin sole burning one and trying to watch the niners game on a 4" battery powered TV had nothing to do with winning that race!

 

[Grande Mastere Dreade]

On a 109 I sail on, the race committee set a Windward leeward, but put up the sign saying you had to round the windward mark to *starboard*. We didn't see that so we sailed a normal race.

We were half way down the course again and everyone behind us went the other way around the mark.

We finished and withdrew. Everyone still knows we beat them.

like the time the fleet followed the "best and the brightest" around the leeward mark with a port rounding , 7 boats all like baby ducks, except the RC was trying to finish the race, didn't move the committee boatm they were on the left side of the mark and didn't fly a blue flag, so no one finished, except that one boat that was 3/4 mile behind everyone else.. who ended up in first.. about halfway to the windard, me and another boat had a brief discussion on what the course was, realized what happened, had to go back , unwind and then finish 2nd & 3rd... the "best and the brightest" ended up last... we gave him the "mama duck" award and the yearly festivities..

 

[familysailor]

Rolex Big Boat Series 2022 Ethical Dilemma?

Here’s the situation.

The SI’s clearly define a restricted area as the zone around Piers 39 and 43 ½ which is marked by temporary white buoys. These buoys are placed by the race committee in order to keep competitors away from the commercial ferry traffic coming in and out of that area. Whereas in prior years, boats were allowed to enter the area as long as they came back out to pass to the outside of each buoy, this year’s SIs forbid boats from going between these white buoys.

8. AREAS THAT ARE OBSTRUCTIONS [NP] [DP] ​

​

Each line bound by the following two points is designated as an obstruction. Boats are prohibited from crossing any of these lines while racing.​

​

j. The white temporary buoy off of Pier 39 mentioned in SI 8.h and the white temporary buoy off of Pier 43-1/2 mentioned in SI 8.i.​

But the SI’s, for some reason, make this a “NP” rule, meaning that a competitor cannot file a protest relating to it.

The notation [NP] in a rule in the SI means it shall not be grounds for protest by a boat. This changes RRS 60.1(a).​

In race 4 you find yourself pinned on the wrong side of the course and are going up the city front when most of the fleet is getting relief from the flood tide in the cone. You seek relief from the flood by sailing in towards Piers 39 and 41 ½, extending well inside the restricted area. By doing so, you gain a substantial advantage vs. those boats on the city front that stay outside of the restricted area.

Several boats saw your infraction. One pulled a flag and hailed protest, but none filed because of the NP restriction.

You are able to claw back to finish 3rd in that race and go on to win the regatta nine points ahead of the 2nd place boat in a very large fleet. Other than this race, you’ve sailed a nearly flawless regatta and absolutely deserve to win the Rolex.

What do you do?

You cheated. You clearly know you did. You should give back the trophy and watch.

 

[Snaggletooth]

You cheated. You clearly know you did. You should give back the trophy and watch.

I adgree, if hese askseng us, he allreddey noes the ansere.

 

[Bump-n-Grind]

I really don't see any dilemma here. Who are you when nobody's watching?