Sailbydate
Super Anarchist
That depends on whether you need an excuse for a slow boat... or not, Terra. It made fuck all difference, either way, for the Brits last go around.
Recon diary
- Thread starter Mozzy Sails
- Start date
enigmatically2
Super Anarchist
You're 4 days late Barfy! This was posted on Friday. Good video though
barfy
Super Anarchist
- 5,446
- 1,587
Must have been posted by one of my doubly Iggy mates 😁💕
Edit: lemme guess..the cut and paste apologist.
Mozzy Sails
Super Anarchist
- Thread starter
- #185
First issue of this. Hoping to develop this format as we sort out a dashboard for the data, plus obviously as we have more months worth of data to add in and show trends.
enigmatically2
Super Anarchist
Excellent @Mozzy Sails
comments/questions
1) How are you calculating manoeuvres/hour. As they don't seem to match the number of manoeuvres and sailing time you list
2) you have me a heartache listing all the UK sailing team as resigned rather than re-signed
3) More seriously - you commented that Ineos foils were the largest area, do you have confirmed spans, chord lengths for that? If so those would be very interesting to compare,
4) And any idea on relative thickness of foils would be even more interesting
comments/questions
1) How are you calculating manoeuvres/hour. As they don't seem to match the number of manoeuvres and sailing time you list
2) you have me a heartache listing all the UK sailing team as resigned rather than re-signed
3) More seriously - you commented that Ineos foils were the largest area, do you have confirmed spans, chord lengths for that? If so those would be very interesting to compare,
4) And any idea on relative thickness of foils would be even more interesting
Mozzy Sails
Super Anarchist
- Thread starter
- #187
1) Yeah, I made a mistake in my VB code and only included tacks per hour. The other values are correct. I've also put the correct values including gybes in the video description and a pinned comment, but appreciate that won't be visible unless you view direct on YouTube.
2) Ha, yes re-signed.
3) By eye. There are less referencable known measurements on the LEQ12 and not a great deal of beam on shots with the foil raised until they said which are best for the plan form. But we should get those numbers in coming months.
4) it would be. But section thickness is even harder to get a measuremrnt for. Maybe something we can get with time.
2) Ha, yes re-signed.
3) By eye. There are less referencable known measurements on the LEQ12 and not a great deal of beam on shots with the foil raised until they said which are best for the plan form. But we should get those numbers in coming months.
4) it would be. But section thickness is even harder to get a measuremrnt for. Maybe something we can get with time.
Thanks Mozzy, really nice overview. Stats are only through October but you did speak to November developments too.
Will the stats be available that show any of the Ineos tow testing? It could be interesting to know at what speeds and what leeboard angles they perform them at; sounds like there will be a lot of that action coming. In a similar vein, do you get any live speed data from off the boats, or just estimates from the Recon team?
Will the stats be available that show any of the Ineos tow testing? It could be interesting to know at what speeds and what leeboard angles they perform them at; sounds like there will be a lot of that action coming. In a similar vein, do you get any live speed data from off the boats, or just estimates from the Recon team?
Visual Basic? Nice - Not my most-preferred language but like with C# the framework accessible is very powerful - obviously including for using databases, which is where all of the Recon data should be getting housed if it is not already.
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enigmatically2
Super Anarchist
Was thinking about this and whether there is any reason why the foils should be any similar proportions to hull of an LEQ12 as a 75.
Annoyingly I can't find the LEQ rules at the moment (probably because I am on my phone), but for example could they design an LEQ to be the same weight as a 75, so that all of the test data has direct read across for lift and drag? Even if not I doubt there is any reason why the foils would be in same ratio as to beam/length as on a 75, or AC40, or even another LEQ.
One advantage of them as a test boat I guess
Mozzy Sails
Super Anarchist
- Thread starter
- #191
Yes, although I haven't used it before, so it was a lot of effort. I have a chap who will do better with python and potentially a bespoke dashboard next month.
It will develop, and there is much more to track, but for the first month it's not really that interesting, but having a proper database will become more and more useful as the data piles up.
Ultimately I think these recon videos won't be mega popular, but they will be a solid record for reference and give people a known place to check in and get a concise overview of each teams recent activity.
If I can get them regular and streamlined so they don't drain toomuch time, then add in specific videos on discrete bits of tech development, plus a interview here or there then I will be adding something valuable.
enigmatically2
Super Anarchist
Don't undersell yourself, you're already adding something valuable
There is a Dorox poster here, he did some super-cool coding in Python and later made it all available on GitHub. He could be a good resource although we had much richer data back at the time.
The trick with the data is the old GIGO (Garbage In Garbage Out) issue; the richer the data is the easier and so simpler your analysis can be. With respect to what you are likely getting the most of - an overwhelming number of photos - there are utilities that can be used automatically as part of the data-creation, to pull valuable 'EXIF' information from the metadata in those photos; the data would depend on the photo format but you'd be surprised what all is encoded in most of the formats (date-time, GPS, direction, etc etc). If the Recon crews could as part of their upload process add some intelligent 'human' data to a small sample of them, maybe to just ten select photos per day, to categorize them for additional metadata that would help a lot too; otherwise you could do that yourself. A simple interface would allow you to 'tag' chosen photos with optional select buttons like (on a scale of 1 to 5 for usefulness) keel, foil, rig, cockpit, left or right or rear or front view, etc. The photos, or at least the links to the photos, could then have all that extra useful data associated; with a search screen that looks much like the upload screen.
Love your videos already, just some fun suggestions for how the system could work - although it really should be implemented on the official site so that everyone with access benefits and so that you and your helpers don't have to invent it yourselves.
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One of several possible photo utilities to add to a possible toolkit, this one is free. One of the commands is 'extract.'
Sailbydate
Super Anarchist
Sailbydate
Super Anarchist
Ha, ha. Had me scratching my noggin too, Riddle.
enigmatically2
Super Anarchist
Now I am on a laptop I have checked. The LEQ12 rule is just basically 6 to 12m LOA (excluding instrumentation).
So one could build an LEQ12 to mimic everything about an AC75 except for displacement and unsticking.
You could give it the same mass as a 75, same CoG and thus your foil design could exactly mimic a 75 to get excellent data.
Thus the foils COULD be AC75 sized and thus very much out of proportion to the boat.
Or you could scale everything. Which means that judging the size of foils in comparison to the hull is pretty meaningless
Highlights the benefits of an LEQ12 - it makes it very hard for any other competitor to know how good your foils are working - unless the recon team are given all up weights etc - which I doubt
Am i right that you don't get that info @Mozzy Sails ?
shebeen
Super Anarchist
also with dual helm each foil is used almost exclusively by a single helm when active. I assume they will look at swapping helms from port/starboard in testing - (we only have LRPP in AC36 with JS starboard and LB port as an example of how to split it).
(around about way of saying, identical foils makes it easier to compare helms' performance.)
ChairborneRanger
Anarchist
the size of the INEOS foils and the length of the weirdly extended foil arms makes sense now.
Kiwing
Super Anarchist
Is there any way we can tell (in displacement mode) whether they have added weight to make her true AC75 model once up on foils while towing?
