Recon diary

The_Alchemist

Super Anarchist
2,948
1,607
USA
From there and according to RG anyway,


Emirates Team New Zealand, in placing its faith in the AC40 platform would seem to be the worst affected of the five America's Cup teams, with one boat that is damaged and must be repaired, and a second AC40 which needs a potentially awkward retrofit. Plus because they are only allowed one LEQ12 hull surface under the rules, their second AC40 must stay in one design mode.
That's what you get when you give yourself all of the new OD boats first before anyone else. You expect to have several months advantage of extra time, but only find that you locked yourself into the rules you wrote.
 

shebeen

Super Anarchist
From there and according to RG anyway,


Emirates Team New Zealand, in placing its faith in the AC40 platform would seem to be the worst affected of the five America's Cup teams, with one boat that is damaged and must be repaired, and a second AC40 which needs a potentially awkward retrofit. Plus because they are only allowed one LEQ12 hull surface under the rules, their second AC40 must stay in one design mode.
I see this rule getting bent now. Since when has a defender ever allowed the rules to disadvantage themselves, don't think Dalts is going to be the moral highground here.
 

Stingray~

Super Anarchist
12,193
3,317
PNW
Would it be too dangerous to a 'real' mast to use it for tank-testing purposes with the attachment point well up from the deck, close to where the COE would be under sail?
 

Mozzy Sails

Super Anarchist
1,255
1,126
United Kingdom
Would it be too dangerous to a 'real' mast to use it for tank-testing purposes with the attachment point well up from the deck, close to where the COE would be under sail?
I think so. INEOS have rigged up their LEQ sailing mast. Looks like a Southern Spars manufactured part.

I think there are a few features of the test mast which would be hard to replicate on the sailing mast like the bearing collar, and the stays attaching close to where the tow line take off comes from, so the tow line isn't pulling midsection.
 

Stingray~

Super Anarchist
12,193
3,317
PNW
The latest response (presumably by Ineos) questioning the possible implications to LR for using their foil sensors - that potentially opens an enormous kettle of fish considering how many sensors there are across all the boats in various positions.
 

JALhazmat

Super Anarchist
4,385
1,673
Southampton
Sensors on boats is different to sensors on the foil.

you would be hard pressed to prove that your new fangled camera pod you’ve just stuck on your foil section is entirely neutral and has no hydrodynamic affect positive or negative.
 

Stingray~

Super Anarchist
12,193
3,317
PNW
Sensors on boats is different to sensors on the foil.

you would be hard pressed to prove that your new fangled camera pod you’ve just stuck on your foil section is entirely neutral and has no hydrodynamic affect positive or negative.
How about the aerodynamic effect created by sensors on the boats? Or on the spreaders? Bowsprit?
 

enigmatically2

Super Anarchist
3,859
1,980
Earth
I think so. INEOS have rigged up their LEQ sailing mast. Looks like a Southern Spars manufactured part.

I think there are a few features of the test mast which would be hard to replicate on the sailing mast like the bearing collar, and the stays attaching close to where the tow line take off comes from, so the tow line isn't pulling midsection.
I suggested on the other thread that they could use the real mast, with a sleeve over it to distribute load etc. The sleeve being part of tow rope would be ok( I think)
 

Stingray~

Super Anarchist
12,193
3,317
PNW
This series of questions/interpretations/responses must surely explain the (non)activity by Ineos recently, their plans having gotten changed. They did bring out the sailing mast and so maybe that is close to being usable; hopefully the sail build schedule was not too far behind - but it could be if they had a lot of 'tank testing' for earlier in the plans.
 
This series of questions/interpretations/responses must surely explain the (non)activity by Ineos recently, their plans having gotten changed. They did bring out the sailing mast and so maybe that is close to being usable; hopefully the sail build schedule was not too far behind - but it could be if they had a lot of 'tank testing' for earlier in the plans.
They are so far behind, every other team is into double digits sailing days and INEOS can't even read the rules correctly to produce a boat they could use for their original intended purpose.
 

Stingray~

Super Anarchist
12,193
3,317
PNW
They are so far behind, every other team is into double digits sailing days and INEOS can't even read the rules correctly to produce a boat they could use for their original intended purpose.
They have been behind, yes, and if this challenge sticks it could put them even farther behind. Especially, as I remarked, if the sails were not due for until even later from now.

I wonder why the Measurement Committee did not already alert Ineos, after seeing the 'tow mast'?
 
Last edited:

Stingray~

Super Anarchist
12,193
3,317
PNW
Since I snapped it for easier reading, may as well post this part

1669841154625.png
 
They have been behind, yes, and if this challenge sticks it could put them even farther behind. Especially, as I remarked, if the sails were not due for until even later from now.

I wonder why the Measurement Committee did not already alert Ineos, after seeing the 'tow mast'?
At least they can sail the AC40 they have.
 

Stingray~

Super Anarchist
12,193
3,317
PNW
At least they can sail the AC40 they have.
In OD mode, yes that's true once they do the retrofit.

Mozzy emphasized the value of their planned tow testing strategy, saying 'the ocean is your tank' and I agree. It was a major part of the plan, BA spoke at length about it recently.

ETNZ is still off the water, LR only just recently got back onto the water, Alinghi struggled with conditions and has been in the shed for a while after that, the only team looking good right now is AM.
 

JHT

New member
2
1
Shame if we don't get to see the tow mast and what it could do to data collection and model tuning in action.

That said, won't a few 10s of hours, in varying conditions, very quickly build enough of a dataset, and be steady enough (after all a power boat towing won't be perfectly steady direction and force either, just more steady) to do regression analysis, or whatever, to assess "this force, on this vector, on average, produces this speed and course, slip, etc."?

Ie I wonder if real world data with the sails up, once collated and crunched, effectively gets you the same data value to tune your VPP programs etc., a little less convenient clearly, but essentially as good a data set once post processed, smoothed, averaged to smooth out acceleration / deceleration spurts, etc.

-------

SEPARATELY...

Forgive me reposting my earlier post (below). Approval of my first post as a new member took a couple of weeks, and hence it was buried in the blizzard since. I'd be interested in your thoughts on what proportion of intel comes from other means in general discussion and research amongst the community (as is normal in any business setting)...

-------

Doesn't the advent of semi open source recon footage, just mean that the real recon game, for differential advantage, moves (back) to intelligence garnered from suppliers, leaks, gossip amongst the staff, teams, designers, builders, etc.?

Ie, everyone gets the base data, so the game is no longer about chase boats on each of the teams and goes back to working traditional intelligence better than your competitors?

By the time most of the innovations are in the water, especially the later ones, it's getting too late to copy effectively as teams are more locked into their design pathways. But learning about directions long before they come out of the shed is useful.

-----

Thanks all
 

Sailbydate

Super Anarchist
11,797
3,393
Kohimarama
In OD mode, yes that's true once they do the retrofit.

Mozzy emphasized the value of their planned tow testing strategy, saying 'the ocean is your tank' and I agree. It was a major part of the plan, BA spoke at length about it recently.

ETNZ is still off the water, LR only just recently got back onto the water, Alinghi struggled with conditions and has been in the shed for a while after that, the only team looking good right now is AM.
Yep. They are looking good, but they'd better find a decent swell to mode in...and soon.
 

The_Alchemist

Super Anarchist
2,948
1,607
USA
Yep. They are looking good, but they'd better find a decent swell to mode in...and soon.
Why? They are working on sails, controls, cyclors, crew training, procedures, etc. Pensacola Bay is like one big test tank, with optimum conditions. They can just slip outside the harbor at anytime to play with some swell.
 

Latest posts




Top