Very difficult, yes. The intent of the AC72 Rule was to disallow foiling but with the help of M&M, who were in large part in control of the writing of that Rule, ETNZ found a language loophole big enough to run with.
Recon diary
- Thread starter Mozzy Sails
- Start date
Kiwing
Super Anarchist
Someone could make some morphing foils within these rules as well.
Lets have fun speculating. None of us speculated that the jib sheeting would be where it is and yet we have not come up with the next development there either.
Come on let's have more fun.
Lets have fun speculating. None of us speculated that the jib sheeting would be where it is and yet we have not come up with the next development there either.
Come on let's have more fun.
Okay, how about articulating hulls next?
The_Alchemist
Super Anarchist
Or tilt it do get more side force and less lift without moving the arm.
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The_Alchemist
Super Anarchist
And it there a rule that the foils have to be symmetrical from the center of the foil arm?
Just having some fun trying to think outside of the box.
There is a ‘box’ of dimensions the foil wings need to fit inside of but it obviously doesn’t need to be perpendicular in space; maybe it does need to be so wrt to the arm.
enigmatically2
Super Anarchist
Yes there is such a rule.
I'm all for speculation, but the rules are right there guys. Lets try and keep it within them
Kiwing
Super Anarchist
When they come out of the water they are symmetrical but under load asymmetrical ?
enigmatically2
Super Anarchist
Some interesting quotes from here
1) LR:
"As forecasted, the pressure in the gulf decreased to below 10kn around 11:30 and the team hoisted J1. After several tryouts taking off, the LEQ12 was towed up by RIB twice and after trying some maneuvers the team called it a day"
They had the J2 up earlier so I assume it was that. In which they are struggling to take off in more breeze (at least 9 kts) than Ineos managed with the J3 the other day
2) Ineos
"In terms of manoeuvres, other than a couple of displacement tacks in between runs, all the other tacks and gybes were slick fully foiling turns"
3) NZ
"Quite often the AC40 looked faster but I did see the LEQ12 trying some extreme pitch (bow down) and heel to leeward angles."
So much for the perceived wisdom on here re all 3 of those points. Almost as if it depends on what the boats are testing and we shouldn't read too much into individual videos or speeds because all boats are slick at some point and less so at others
More interesting
"The Head of the [NZ] LEQ12 main looks flatter than the AC40 and sometimes up range looks to be mildly inverted in the top 1/4 on the leeward side"
With no top main section, I wonder how they are doing that
1) LR:
"As forecasted, the pressure in the gulf decreased to below 10kn around 11:30 and the team hoisted J1. After several tryouts taking off, the LEQ12 was towed up by RIB twice and after trying some maneuvers the team called it a day"
They had the J2 up earlier so I assume it was that. In which they are struggling to take off in more breeze (at least 9 kts) than Ineos managed with the J3 the other day
2) Ineos
"In terms of manoeuvres, other than a couple of displacement tacks in between runs, all the other tacks and gybes were slick fully foiling turns"
3) NZ
"Quite often the AC40 looked faster but I did see the LEQ12 trying some extreme pitch (bow down) and heel to leeward angles."
So much for the perceived wisdom on here re all 3 of those points. Almost as if it depends on what the boats are testing and we shouldn't read too much into individual videos or speeds because all boats are slick at some point and less so at others
More interesting
"The Head of the [NZ] LEQ12 main looks flatter than the AC40 and sometimes up range looks to be mildly inverted in the top 1/4 on the leeward side"
With no top main section, I wonder how they are doing that
JALhazmat
Super Anarchist
Inverted head on the sail has been the norm for windsurfing sails for donkeys years
sufficient down haul ( Cunningham) and hey presto your leech tension bleeds away from the top gradually down the leech
sufficient down haul ( Cunningham) and hey presto your leech tension bleeds away from the top gradually down the leech
enigmatically2
Super Anarchist
Perhaps its terminology, I would regard the head as feathered not inverted in that case
JALhazmat
Super Anarchist
Yeah at some point the inverted head thing appeared here and stuck I think the invert the head fit additional righting moment thing on the wings, it’s just twist realistically
Yes, we saw the invert/twist used even by the BOR90 with their truly-gigantic wing to good effect at times. It was touted as being one of the benefits of wings.
JALhazmat
Super Anarchist
The twist is depowering the rig without sheeting out, with solid multi piece wings, windsurf sails etc
enigmatically2
Super Anarchist
Any rig can twist, the assertion was that the top section can be inverted on a solid wing to provide significant righting moment (rather than just reducing heeling moment)
But in this case they may just mean twisted off until feathering/backing and its just terminology
(and yes I know that when a soft sail backs/feathers it can produce some righting moment, but not the significant amount of a solid rig - that I have seen)
buckdouger
Anarchist
- 916
- 411
Like this?
JALhazmat
Super Anarchist
No righting moment was harmed in the making of this picture
I think the term is "gust response" the leech twists open automatically without the need for trimming the sheet or the traveller. If you have it matched to maxium righting moment then the leech just opens when that point is reached. Probably windsurfers are the only working example of this in practice as the above photo shows.
The_Alchemist
Super Anarchist
INEOS looked much better and actually very good in that video. Looks like they have gotten the LEQ12 figured out and it will be good for 2 boat against their AC40.
My earlier comments were based upon what we were seeing, this changes those observations.
enigmatically2
Super Anarchist
There have been other videos that they have been stable, but it is in any case irrelevant. It was legit to question that last time round, but the exam question has changed.
We know that they can fly stabily, they did that already. They can do it but obviously won't be enough.
So they will have to push the limits, and that is likely to make them less stable while they test new things.
So stability is irrelevant unless we know what they are testing, whether they are using AP etc
