Regatta instruments for a 26 footer (long-keeled)

[bbl]

I own and race an International Folkboat, a classic long-keeled sailboat. There are typically 15+ boats racing OD each wednesday (more in the Nationals). Last year the rules for electronics etc. were relaxed, so from no electronics (and no speed through water devices) it's now "everything goes".

So, I'd like to install something that aids me. The only thing I have from before is a Garmin GPSMAP420 that doesn't work when wet, and which only supports NMEA0183.

I'd like wind measurements and speed through water. I'd like some display to compute the effect of the current by reading SOG from the old GPS (or a new GPS) and speed through water. I'd like to see exactly how large a header or lift I'm on. And I'd like something I could use to compute how much the pin end or comittee end is favoured.

Icing would be something that would calculate layline based on input from the instrument (and basic boat data). I think I can find polars, but of course it would be better if the system learnt from gathering data what the polars are in different conditions.

What I don't really need is a tiller pilot. Well, it could be OK for sailing vacations with the GF

From dreams to budget, my limit is US $2500 (15.000 Norwegian kroner), which I'm sure is not enough for what I want, but could cover some of it. What equipment would you recommend and why? What vendors and products?

Thanks so much in advance!

 

[Memopad]

Can't help with the instruments but I am jealous of the Folkboat fleets on your side of the pond. I had a 1976 IF that I sold two years ago I regret selling it lol.

 

[Rodfavela]

Hello Harzak,

Certainly happy to read that the class rules are allowing some higher technology resources on the Folkboat. That will help most sailors to narrow down their adjustments and hopefully kick the level of the class further up.

For the first part of your posting, I consider using a Tacktick Race Master T075 Package will be adequate. This will provide you tactical information on headers, lifts, tacking angles and will also display speed through the water. The beauty of using this is that you can always expand the syetm as much as you want using Tacktick dsiplays, GPS antenna, etc. but for starting this is a very nice system that looks like a perfect fit for your application. Also you need only one through hull as it will work with the Triducer (speed, depth and water temp.) all data from one sensor.

In regards to the wind information, the Tacktick T101 Wind System will do the job. These will work via wireless link from the mastehead to the display. Again, this can be expanded later on with additional instruments for VMG, apparent wind, etc. Budget wise, you are right on ($94 more or so) for the base set up, which will be of big help, according to what we infer from your posting.

Tacktick instruments support NMEA 0183 through their NMEA Interface T122 which you will only need if want to connect your Garmin to the system, but again it can be on a second step (just thinking about the budget).

The only thing left to check is how "relaxed" the class rules are right now in terms of how far you can go on the addition of instruments.

Feel free to PM me if need more detailed information: [email protected]

Hope this helps.

 

[Distance]

Hello Harzack,

Along with Vela's recomendations may I also suggest interfacing the stuff with an iPad or iPhone. If you have NMEA 0183 instruments than you can use an app like iRegatta to do many of the calculations you seek. I sell the DMK Box that is an interface and there are others on the market as well. If you use a smartphone or a tablet already than it is good bang for the buck. If you do not than it may bust your budget.

 

[P2 Marine]

Hi Harzak,

I'm an electronics guy. I sell them, install them, optimize them and use them. I also have a great passion for classic one-design boats,

My recomendation would be to spend your money on sails and beer, and enjoy sailing your Folkboat as the generations of salors before you have.

Here's a shot of my Knarr. It was built in Norway in 1956. It is fully equipped with a compass and telltales.

Cheers,

Rob

 

[Woolfy]

Hi Harzak,

From my experience with Folkboats I'm almost inclined to agree with Rob, trouble is if the class has relaxed the rules then there will be those who will buy the electronics and using them will be of benefit to them when racing, so new sparks it is. First things first, Folkboats like most classic designs are a nightmare to get accurate speed data on, the very shape of the hull means that as soon as it leans the difference in speed of the laminar flow either side of the center line is dramatic, this means that not only will speed through the water be out, but so will all true wind data as boat speed is one of the inputs required to do the calculations. Frankly if the data you're getting is not correct then Rob's right you might as well buy sails and drink beer.

There are two ways of overcoming this problem, one is to fit the speed transducer bang on the center line, in my experience, not possible on Folkboats with any of the standard speed transducers available these days, a combination of the construction, keel position and hull shape make the length of the skin fitting and transducer too great. The other is to have two speed transducers, fit them in identical locations either side of the center line and have a system that automatically switches to using the leeward transducer on all points of sail, in this way once you've got everything calibrated properly you should always get accurate data. Declaring an interest here, I work for Nexus, but I think we have the solution you need, we produce a product called a heel switch, basically it's two of the WSI boxes we use for our wireless wind transducers linked together in our standard network, you plug a speed (and if you want to, depth) transducer into each. As long as you have either a nexus wired or wireless wind or HPC compass transducer in the system the leeward speed transducer will always be the one read.

Price? There's a huge variety of ways of putting a package together all of which could be expanded further at a later date, but the most basic option which would give you true and apparent wind speed and angle along with speed through the water and depth data (only one depth transducer though, so if leaning hard when the depth transducer is on the windward side it'll be next to useless) would come in at a retail of about USD 2600...the option I'd actually go for were it my boat comes in at about USD 3200, either way over budget, but no-one pays retail these days so I'm pretty sure if you shopped around you'd get what you need within budget and it will do what you need. No time to start listing part numbers etc right now, but if you want to know more just ask.

 

[Joakim]

How well does even the two speed sensor system work? There is probably still a big difference due to heel and leeway between e.g. downwind with no heel and leeway vs. beat in heavy air with lots of both. Two sensors solve the problem of different readings on different tacks, but are not necessary that accurate.

 

[Pewit]

Hello Harzack,

Along with Vela's recomendations may I also suggest interfacing the stuff with an iPad or iPhone. If you have NMEA 0183 instruments than you can use an app like iRegatta to do many of the calculations you seek. I sell the DMK Box that is an interface and there are others on the market as well. If you use a smartphone or a tablet already than it is good bang for the buck. If you do not than it may bust your budget.

+1 for iRegatta

It does all of the functions of the single function instruments for only $10 and you can use the iPad to play relaxing classical music or check your mail between races (LOL).

If you decide to add any sensors, iRegatta can take the NMEA feeds and it uses the built in GPS and Mobile networks for positioning which is probably accurate enough for your needs.

And you'd still have some money left over after buying a waterproof hard case such as Griifin Survivor, Otterbox Defender, Aryca Rock or LifeEdge

 

[Woolfy]

Joakim, in my experience which I'm afraid to admit unfortunately goes back to the days when most boats were built with long keel/steep V configurations, twin transducer systems work well and accuracy is easy to achieve, sensors definitely need to be fitted in the "mirror" position though. Historically the problems I've always experienced have been related to the switching itself....over the years a variety of methods have been tried, with varying levels of success and reliability. Heel and leeway do certainly have an influence however as long as the leeward transducer is always the one used levels of accuracy whilst not perfect, are good enough for most....there is another option which I didn't mention and that's to use the sonic speed transducer, as this reads particle movement beyond the layer of water movement affected by heel/hull shape it'll work a treat on all points of sail......trouble is the transducer alone retails for about $1300, kinda blows Hazarks budget!

 

[Christian]

Hi Harzak,

I'm an electronics guy. I sell them, install them, optimize them and use them. I also have a great passion for classic one-design boats,

My recomendation would be to spend your money on sails and beer, and enjoy sailing your Folkboat as the generations of salors before you have.

Here's a shot of my Knarr. It was built in Norway in 1956. It is fully equipped with a compass and telltales.

Cheers,

Rob

Rob

You took the words right out of my mouth

If you want to race with electronics and the latest gizmos, you shouldn't be racing a folkboat

 

[Olsonist]

NMEA 2000

Simrad Combi IS-20 and the AP24 are both around $420. The AP24 doubles as an IS20 when not autopiloting.

Simrad Wind Instrument $860

Simrad Tillpilot TP22 $500

Maretron or Airmar triducer about $250

$2450

Yeah, you'll need some other stuff: cables. Simrad is kind of B&G lite. You can get by without the AP24 but it is the same price as the IS-20 Combi. I love my IS20s. I also like my Furuno FI504s on the masthead but I truly hate the FI503. It is a really really bad instrument.