Restarting America Means People Will Die. So When Should We Do It?

mikewof

mikewof
44,833
1,082
So long as those who serve get the necessary support from our government - a letter in today's local paper:


LETTER: I will continue to serve my country


Editor:

I am being deployed again tomorrow at the grocery store where I work. I am being asked to support those who wish to purchase products necessary to combat the most recent strain of coronavirus as well as those who wish to do normal, everyday shopping.

I have begun to develop symptoms of PTSD, but will continue to serve my country as best I can. I am confident that my government has included in the $2.2 trillion bailout package the money required to provide the necessary assistance I may need.

God bless America.
Another PAer gets it. The ranks grow.

 

Burning Man

Super Anarchist
10,322
1,941
Back to the desert
The hard fact of life is that we cannot stay bunkered until they come up with a vaccine. It isn't feasible economically, medically, or socially. We need to have a national discussion about this, a rational plan with benefits and cost. Otherwise, there will be chaos.
Then why were you and your elk such cunts to me when I attempted to have a rational discussion about this a month ago???




 

Snore

Super Anarchist
3,087
323
DTSP and on OPB
Short of testing 100% of the people in one day, testing is a 'feel good' plan.  Think of it this way- if we were to test 10% of the population each day, and  if you find a positive on day 5, that person(s) could have contaminated some of the first 40%.  Testing solves nothing!

Absent a vaccine-there is no safe way out of this.  

How has this affected me? I finished a Panama- Key West delivery in late March, and have shut down my deliveries.  I have 2 boats waiting for me and will likely not move them.  Financially, I do not need the money and deliver for the fun of it--- and to pay for fun vacations.  

Those who need the money are in a dilemma.  Do they go through their savings, or risk dying?  Or worse, risk getting a loved one ill, who in turn can die.  

The bullshit headline simply states a fact.  When the shutdown is lifted, the number of cases will increase and mortality will go up.  That is not Trumps fault, or Congress's fault, it is the nature of the shit show we are dealing with.

 

Burning Man

Super Anarchist
10,322
1,941
Back to the desert
I wouldn't call Gator "tone deaf" in wishing misfortune on others. Oblivious, perhaps. Ill, perhaps.
Clean should flick your fucking ass for good.
For what??  For suggesting that wishing someone would get sick and die because they politically disagree with them on a fucking internet forum has mental issues?  For one of the few times ever, mikey is right about this.

 

mikewof

mikewof
44,833
1,082
Speaking of testing, Brother, SIL and 2 adult children have all the signs. Fortunately not too I’ll, fever and cough. Minneapolis suburbs. Nephew went in for a check as he had pneumonia a few month back. X-ray yes given history. virus test? No. Not sick enough. 
no test, no problem!

eh Mikey?
Is there a reason why you're asking me about your family's health?

Fewer Americans per capita are now dying than at any other time in history. So statistically, you should have been more worried before this happened.

But logic has an historically shitty record on regulating fear, so go ahead and wring those hands.

 

Sol Rosenberg

Girthy Member
93,148
10,890
Earth
Then why were you and your elk such cunts to me when I attempted to have a rational discussion about this a month ago???
It’s all about the timing. We just took over the lead in the body count this morning. Let’s bask in the glory of being #1 for a bit. 
 

On the other hand, if the billionaires want to pay what it takes to get people to do their work for them, they should be allowed to get back to the business of having people make their fortune for them. Let those who think it’s safe throw caution to the wind and put their own asses on the line. 

 

Fakenews

Super Anarchist
13,514
1,764
For what??  For suggesting that wishing someone would get sick and die because they politically disagree with them on a fucking internet forum has mental issues?  For one of the few times ever, mikey is right about this.
I can only speak for myself (FN)  but the only person I’ve actively wished would get Coronavirus and die is Trump.  Many reasonable people agree with this though with some variation in modality (stroke, asteroid strike, bear attack, heart attack, flesh eating disease etc).  Otherwise I’ve simply noted that the elk are not good and valued posters.  Neither are our resident racists (who overlap with the elk).

 

mikewof

mikewof
44,833
1,082
Short of testing 100% of the people in one day, testing is a 'feel good' plan.  Think of it this way- if we were to test 10% of the population each day, and  if you find a positive on day 5, that person(s) could have contaminated some of the first 40%.  Testing solves nothing!

Absent a vaccine-there is no safe way out of this.  

How has this affected me? I finished a Panama- Key West delivery in late March, and have shut down my deliveries.  I have 2 boats waiting for me and will likely not move them.  Financially, I do not need the money and deliver for the fun of it--- and to pay for fun vacations.  

Those who need the money are in a dilemma.  Do they go through their savings, or risk dying?  Or worse, risk getting a loved one ill, who in turn can die.  

The bullshit headline simply states a fact.  When the shutdown is lifted, the number of cases will increase and mortality will go up.  That is not Trumps fault, or Congress's fault, it is the nature of the shit show we are dealing with.
Testing is good if it can be done affordably, because it will dramatically lower the mortality rate simply by applying better data.

Although at this point. I suspect there are a few tens of millions of Americans who would support a continued lockdown even at 0.1% mortality rate.

This research suggests that the morality rate is closer to 0.01%, 

http://www.research-in-germany.org/news/2020/4/2020-04-07_COVID-19__on_average_only_6__of_actual_SARS-CoV-2_infections_detected_worldwide.html

But math too has an historically shitty record against fear.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

mikewof

mikewof
44,833
1,082
It’s all about the timing. We just took over the lead in the body count this morning. Let’s bask in the glory of being #1 for a bit. 
 

On the other hand, if the billionaires want to pay what it takes to get people to do their work for them, they should be allowed to get back to the business of having people make their fortune for them.Let those who think it’s safe throw caution to the wind and put their own asses on the line. 
FFS Sol, it's that bubble again ... there are tens of millions of Americans just as scared as you are who work because they have to provide for their families. They haven't stopped working.

"Essential services" in my area includes filling potholes, building a luxury hotel, and running liquor stores.

I do agree with you that this lockdown should have been voluntary from the beginning.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Fakenews

Super Anarchist
13,514
1,764
Short of testing 100% of the people in one day, testing is a 'feel good' plan.  Think of it this way- if we were to test 10% of the population each day, and  if you find a positive on day 5, that person(s) could have contaminated some of the first 40%.  Testing solves nothing!

Absent a vaccine-there is no safe way out of this.  

How has this affected me? I finished a Panama- Key West delivery in late March, and have shut down my deliveries.  I have 2 boats waiting for me and will likely not move them.  Financially, I do not need the money and deliver for the fun of it--- and to pay for fun vacations.  

Those who need the money are in a dilemma.  Do they go through their savings, or risk dying?  Or worse, risk getting a loved one ill, who in turn can die.  

The bullshit headline simply states a fact.  When the shutdown is lifted, the number of cases will increase and mortality will go up.  That is not Trumps fault, or Congress's fault, it is the nature of the shit show we are dealing with.
“Testing solves nothing”.  You’re a blithering idiot.

 

Sol Rosenberg

Girthy Member
93,148
10,890
Earth
There should be a convention for all of the skeptics to celebrate the reopening of our economy. A huge party. Tremendous. On the National Mall. Get all the Faithfull together to celebrate owning the libs. Many people are suggesting it very strongly. Belief me. 

 

Raz'r

Super Anarchist
60,849
4,932
De Nile
As much as I agree with the concept, I don't think it's possible to have a rational national discussion.  I don't think there's an appetite for a rational discussion on this board, let alone the greater public.   Simply put, 'rational' means you have to be able to apply some sort of value judgement (qualitative, if not quantitative) on human life, and that's just beyond what can be discussed in America.

I think we're going to emotionally lurch back and forth between societal guard rails until there are treatments/vaccines that get the severity of infection under what can be handled in local hospitals.  And then COVID becomes the flu, or diabetes, or drug overdoses, or other 'acceptable' morbidity risks and people put it out of their minds and watch football and fireworks and sail on a beautiful summer afternoon again.

Now the stuff that's going to get me in trouble - the same personality features of Trump that made him pretty awful going into the COVID crisis are actually going to play fairly well coming the other side.  I know people don't want to hear that.  Trump is an emotionally driven pitchman who 'reads the crowd'.   He shut everything down (late)  and he's probably going to open things up (early) because the majority of Americans aren't really that rational.  We want what we want, not based on "reason" or logic.  Yea.. 'This feels like it's been long enough..."  And Trump caters to it.

And unlike most politicians, he doesn't mind changing direction.  For 99% of politicians in democratic governments, the idea of shutting down, then reopening, then shutting down again is terrifying.  They could be wrong and 'blood will be on their hands'!  Trump won't give a shit.  He'll mouth the words about ** most important decision of my presidency **  but he doesn't believe that.  He's reading the crowd.  He'll keep the quarantine in place until a majority push back.. he's a populist through and through.  Then he'll reopen.  And if it goes badly and people start getting angsty, he'll requarantine.  There is no logic to a populist.  It's mob rule.

I can tell you that the business folks I deal with are planning on May 18th as the day the national quarantine guidance is lifted.  That's essentially the end of the '6-8 weeks' initial estimate.

EDIT _ BTW, by 'quarantine guidance lifted' I mean an expansion is the definition of "critical."  Places like barber shops and TJ MAXX will reopen.  I think some restaurants may reopen with isolated seating for example.  They will have limited access, 6' boundaries, masks, etc.  There won't be professional conferences, sporting events, concerts, or major gatherings for the rest of this year IMHO. 
Excellent, cause I need a haircut.

 

Raz'r

Super Anarchist
60,849
4,932
De Nile
Short of testing 100% of the people in one day, testing is a 'feel good' plan.  Think of it this way- if we were to test 10% of the population each day, and  if you find a positive on day 5, that person(s) could have contaminated some of the first 40%.  Testing solves nothing!

Absent a vaccine-there is no safe way out of this.  

How has this affected me? I finished a Panama- Key West delivery in late March, and have shut down my deliveries.  I have 2 boats waiting for me and will likely not move them.  Financially, I do not need the money and deliver for the fun of it--- and to pay for fun vacations.  

Those who need the money are in a dilemma.  Do they go through their savings, or risk dying?  Or worse, risk getting a loved one ill, who in turn can die.  

The bullshit headline simply states a fact.  When the shutdown is lifted, the number of cases will increase and mortality will go up.  That is not Trumps fault, or Congress's fault, it is the nature of the shit show we are dealing with.
Testing solves nothing? Going for the stupid post of the day?

 

Raz'r

Super Anarchist
60,849
4,932
De Nile
Is there a reason why you're asking me about your family's health?

Fewer Americans per capita are now dying than at any other time in history. So statistically, you should have been more worried before this happened.

But logic has an historically shitty record on regulating fear, so go ahead and wring those hands.
Just pointing out your continual lie that the numbers the Feds are reporting are both comprehensive and correct.

 

Fakenews

Super Anarchist
13,514
1,764
Trump is not going to be able to make the call to open the country.  Cuomo just told him so in no uncertain terms on national TV.  It will be the call of Blue state governors who lead the biggest economic engines in the country.  I trust them to make the hard decisions but know there will be mistake made along the way.

 
Top