Retirement planning - how much does it cost!

El Borracho

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Pacific Rim
Make sure your health insurance includes repatriation flights to a First World country...

FKT
Cruisers only fly back to the home country because of insurance coverage for major or long-term procedures. Top quality care is readily available, and low cost, in Singapore, Malaysia, and Philippines. DAN is a remarkably good deal anywhere. 

 

Jud - s/v Sputnik

Super Anarchist
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Bangkok also .
Met some Air B ‘n B folks in Hawaii who flew annually to Bangkok for medical and dental stuff, since the USA options are of course ridiculously expensive.  High quality medical (as is done by some folks who go to Mexico, too).

 
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slug zitski

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So, I know a bunch of you are raising your eyebrows, digging out your pieces of string, looking for old threads that I really should have done a search for, but none the less....

...My financial advisor is asking me how much I need to put into the spreadsheet for my future cruising plans.  In my mind there's:

  • Cruising around the Med, trying to stay out of marinas, but inevitably not managing it
  • Cruising the Caribean and beyond, doing what ever!

Plan would be a new of nearly new 45 footer (which I've got the budget numbers for elsewhere)

So the question is - What annual costs should I be putting in the spreadsheet for living and maintenance.

Anyone got any ideas?
In regions like the Med , that have few natural harbours , it’s difficult to avoid marinas 

budget at least 50 percent of your time in marinas 

Winter weather in the Med is harsh 

maintenance ? Difficult to predict …west Med prices are high, east med prices are low 

general operating costs  in the Med are similar to what you would pay in the US  

 
10% of purchase price or value per year is a safe number for maintenance. Some years less some more. Figure about 1-2k per month you will be in a marina for moorage and "other" expenses. Active cruising drops many in town costs but raises maintenance costs. Inland travel and airfare are big question marks now.  

The scale is fairly huge and very much dependant on your lifestyle and the boat you choose.

Whatever your financial planner has down for your realistic at home living expenses per month based on years past, probably tack on the boat maintenance and you will be close. 

 

slug zitski

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Maintenance and repairs are hard to estimate ,an equipment failure could put you in a marina for two weeks while you waite for the replacement part to be air freighted in and cleared thru customs 

upgrades are hard to estimate 

a new set of fitted Bed sheets ? Yikes !

a new dodger skin ? Yikes !

a new masthead wind wand ? Yikes !

boats a full of these ….yikes ! Items 

when cruising around provisions are more expensive than what you would pay at the supermarket back home 

you must also plan on how to get money on the boat 

exchange rates and transfers eat cash fast 

 

Huggy Bear Brown

Anarchist
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Two of us.  Not too many toys, a couple of bikes, normal electronics, more restaurants than taco stands, local buses are fine, flights I’ve already got sorted.  Just an average way of life really.
We've been cruising full time in the Caribbean Windward Islands for three years on a 2008 Jeanneau 45DS.  We typically go out to local restaurants around twice a week and always take the local dollar buses for transport.  We're always at anchor, but spend 4 to 6 weeks in a Grenada marina this time of year due to the heat and keep my wife happy with A/C.  We also go on the hard in the Sept/Oct timeframe to visit friends and family in the States.  Here is how our budget breaks down:

  • Groceries, restaurants, entertainment, beer, rum - $440/week   We ATM withdraw at the start of the week and only use cash.
  • We have a miscellaneous budget of $800/month which covers laundry services, mail service, or anything else that pops up which is not food/drink related.
  • Boat insurance is $6000/yr or just over 3% of value.
  • Boat maintenance is $14,000/yr.
  • Communication budget is $100/month for two local phones.  Each phone has a 5gig/week data plan.  Skype and WhatsApp are great.
  • Fuel for diesel, outboard, propane is $120/month which has been more than enough.  We typically run our generator 1/2 hour per day.
  • 6 weeks in the marina with A/C was $1500 - electricity cost more than the slip.  The marina allows you to do a lot of your maintenance chores in a/c.
  • Haul out and two months storage is around $3000 on the high end.  https://spiceislandmarine.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/simsco-rates-2019.pdf
  • We have international health insurance through IMG which includes evacuation.  Be aware of evac plans as they typically will only get you to the closest facility that can handle your needs, not your home country.  This plan is $2000/year for my wife and I.
  • We also have US health insurance.

Hope that helps and have fun with your adventure.

Huggy

 

slug zitski

Super Anarchist
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We've been cruising full time in the Caribbean Windward Islands for three years on a 2008 Jeanneau 45DS.  We typically go out to local restaurants around twice a week and always take the local dollar buses for transport.  We're always at anchor, but spend 4 to 6 weeks in a Grenada marina this time of year due to the heat and keep my wife happy with A/C.  We also go on the hard in the Sept/Oct timeframe to visit friends and family in the States.  Here is how our budget breaks down:

  • Groceries, restaurants, entertainment, beer, rum - $440/week   We ATM withdraw at the start of the week and only use cash.
  • We have a miscellaneous budget of $800/month which covers laundry services, mail service, or anything else that pops up which is not food/drink related.
  • Boat insurance is $6000/yr or just over 3% of value.
  • Boat maintenance is $14,000/yr.
  • Communication budget is $100/month for two local phones.  Each phone has a 5gig/week data plan.  Skype and WhatsApp are great.
  • Fuel for diesel, outboard, propane is $120/month which has been more than enough.  We typically run our generator 1/2 hour per day.
  • 6 weeks in the marina with A/C was $1500 - electricity cost more than the slip.  The marina allows you to do a lot of your maintenance chores in a/c.
  • Haul out and two months storage is around $3000 on the high end.  https://spiceislandmarine.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/simsco-rates-2019.pdf
  • We have international health insurance through IMG which includes evacuation.  Be aware of evac plans as they typically will only get you to the closest facility that can handle your needs, not your home country.  This plan is $2000/year for my wife and I.
  • We also have US health insurance.

Hope that helps and have fun with your adventure.

Huggy
Yup 

Weather… many times the weather turns miserable for a few weeks 

hot, thunderstorms ….or overcrowded anchorages 

marinas are a fact of life 

when cruising in the med skip US health insurance and only pay for Euro health insurance 

half price 

Also speak to your accountant about income tax… 

 

Jud - s/v Sputnik

Super Anarchist
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Canada
All of this is making me realize I’ll need to sell my house, and my child, perhaps my wife, and chop down and sell the valuable trees on my lot for firewood to afford any of this.

I’m ok with that.  (Will check on the other stuff.)

 
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TwoLegged

Super Anarchist
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All of this is making me realize I’ll need to sell my house, and my child, perhaps my wife, and chop down and sell the valuable trees on my lot for firewood to afford any of this.

I’m ok with that.  (Will check on the other stuff.)
Jud, if you are happy for example, to live without insurance that allows you to be airlifted out of Europe when you need medical treatment*  :rolleyes: , then you can live a lot more cheaply than some of the posts above suggest.  Similarly if you avoid the areas where you have to stay in marinas, and if you do your own cooking and don't demand 24/7 net.access.  Then you might not actually need to sell your spouse.

Then again, your choice of a rugged very DIYable offshore boat suggest that your sailing plans are not based on preening yourself in a marina at Cannes or Capri.

* personally, if I ever need medical treatment, I'd pay good money to be not caught up in the absurd USAnian medical system.  That's one of the few countries from which I would want a medevac

 

Elegua

Generalissimo
Cruisers only fly back to the home country because of insurance coverage for major or long-term procedures. Top quality care is readily available, and low cost, in Singapore, Malaysia, and Philippines. DAN is a remarkably good deal anywhere. 
Well, having worked with all of those systems....Singapore is better than most G7, Malaysia is kind of meh outside of basic care. I wouldn't' trust PI with basic care and I worked with Quezon's Grandson. If had something serious, the US system is still the best if you have insurance or Medicare.  We moved people to jobs in the US when they had a cancer diagnoses - of course on the company plan. 

 

Zonker

Super Anarchist
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Canada
DAN does that cheapish.
Not quite. Look into DANboater. It's a new policy more suited for cruising folks. Also have good reports about https://www.worldnomads.com/

Boat insurance is $6000/yr or just over 3% of value
That is very steep. Might want to shop around.

Boat maintenance is $14,000/y
That's quite high to me. What are you doing for that sort of thing over 3 years.

6 weeks in the marina with A/C was $1500
Ouch. 

I don't agree "Marinas are a fact of life". In most parts of the world you can avoid them. Just think "I'm poor" and follow the poor cruisers and see where they go.

South Africa is an exception because of the limited harbours and strong winds. We cruised RTW. In5.5 years of cruising our marina stays were about this:

Mexico 2 days Ensenda getting checked into the country; making up a fake registration certificate
Mexico 1 x 1 month (getting the boat ready for a Pacific crossing)
Mexico 1 x 2 months (getting ready to sell after RTW, socializing with friends etc. Spent too long here but it was last hurrah time)
Mexico 2 days in Puerto Escondito

French Polynesia, Tonga, Cook islands, Vanuatua - nope
Fiji - Mooring buoy in Savusavu, Fiji for 1 day when checking in to the country

Australia - 1 day in Bundaberg to check in to the Country
Australia - 2 days after a haulout somewhere in Queensland I forget where

Indonesia - nope

Malaysia - 3 days to check into country, restock on groceries after Indonesia, hit up a Starbucks etc.

Sri Lanka, Maldives, Chagos, Seychelles, Comoros, Madagascar - nope

S. Africa - nearly 4 months there, all in yacht clubs/marinas

St Helena, Ascencion I - nope

Suriname, Tobago, Grenda, Curacao - nope

Panama - nope though lots of people choose to go into Shelter Bay before canal

Costa Rica - maybe 1 night in Golfito (high risk of robbery)?

Mexico coast, heading north - about 1 week to celebrate Christmas and do a road trip inland. Puerto Madero near the Guat. border

So if I add it all up I get about 8 months. South Africa and the 2 months in a marina before selling really skewed those numbers.
 

 

Fah Kiew Tu

Curmudgeon, First Rank
10,052
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Tasmania, Australia
Met some Air B ‘n B folks in Hawaii who flew annually to Bangkok for medical and dental stuff, since the USA options are of course ridiculously expensive.  High quality medical (as is done by some folks who go to Mexico, too).
You guys are kind of making my point for me. None of you mention the big remote & sprawling places like Indonesia or the smaller remote ones like the Solomons, PNG, Vanuatu, New Caledonia et al. Get sick or injured there, get flown out.

As for the Philippines, I dispute that one. My first wife is a consultant to their Ministry of Health, spends a fair bit of time over there auditing their systems and labs. Let's say she's not impressed. Are they better than the Indonesians? Sure. The equal of the better places in Malaysia? No. Let alone Singapore. But how many of you are going to be cruising Singapore? It's still a flight to get there. Malaysia or Thailand, yes, decent cruising there.

Of course I'm looking at this from an Aussie POV rather than a USA one so not biased by having to make a choice between bankruptcy and dying if I get ill.

As I said, budget for flights out to somewhere with a First World medical/hospital system. Hope you'll never need it.

FWIW my retirement expenses are well below my retirement income but I live fairly frugally (except for a really bad tool habit, but that makes money sometimes). I can easily live on $30K AUD a year. Full time cruising would decrease that amount but I can fix everything on my boat - destroying an engine or losing an expensive prop are the sort of things that can't be fixed and are unlikely but possible events.

FKT

 

Zonker

Super Anarchist
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Canada
Penang Malaysia. I visited a hospital there for a heart arrthymia condition that developed while in Indo. 95% of the patients were from China

The population is about 0.75M. They don't need that many hospitals for the local folks. 

FKT has it right. Depending on where you are, getting out fast is the best option. 

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Z insurance has changed alot since you guys were out, probably lucky to even get a new policy in the Carribean now.  

These threads tend to all follow a similar vain, people giving examples of what worked for them etc but at the end of the day most Zebras don't change their stripes.  If your standard of living at home, pre-cruising, is a 8 you probably aren't going to be able to do a 4 on a boat.  

 




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