Rolex Big Joke Series

some dude

Super Anarchist
4,176
169
White people problems- consider yourselves lucky you're not on deck to be beheaded by some nutcase in tge Middle East.

Smoke a bowl, eat some fruit loops and chill the fuck out.
Word. Regattas over. Your score ain't gonna change at this point. STFU

 

143eps

New member
3
0
In response to Post #75 by Hamachi. Posted on behalf of Don, owner of Whiplash.

It was a refreshing surprise to now learn from your post that on Hamachi “we had agreed that if we beat Whiplash and won our class, we would have withdrawn from race 4.” Your admission is consistent with nearly everyone’s view that factually you were OCS in race 4 (though perhaps you didn’t realize it at the time of the incident-- to give you the benefit of the doubt). The problem is that based on your forum post, your moral compass is still pointing in the wrong direction because your admission that you would have withdrawn doesn’t automatically make it all right. You correctly point out if you withdrew that you would still be on the podium, however, the problem is that you have improperly claimed the wrong trophy on that podium as 2nd place should belong to Beecom. As time passes, I doubt anyone will remember whether Hamachi got a 2nd or a 3rd but people tend to have long memories for stuff like this. If you know or subsequently learn that you are OCS, the fair and sportsmanlike thing to do is request that you are scored OCS, not fight to have your score re-instated and then hang onto that score despite the knowledge that you now know that 2nd place score is incorrect. In a sport where sailors, for example, voluntarily accept penalties when they touch a mark and nobody sees them, it is corrosive to the integrity of the sport we hold dear for you to know, at whatever point, that you are OCS and not formally accept it, even when it is caught on video and asserted by the Race Committee which you protested.

Addressing some of the points that you raised --- so you won your redress procedural battle based on the sole Jury conclusion of “the RC made error using information not of it’s (sic) own observation to score”; not a complete surprise there. We respect the decisions of the International Jury in your case and others, none of which we were a party to. T2PTV’s policy is to intentionally not be on the start line so they don’t get dragged into every protest hearing for every regatta they cover. That said, it is pretty obvious that you are over early from the linked video segment starting at 8:03.

. Normally, it would be difficult to see an over early filmed slightly away from the start, but this is an interesting case, in that you were book-ended by boats that all were called over early on both sides of you, which gives perspective plus you can see the puff of smoke of the start gun, quite literally “the Smoking Gun”. The two boats to port of you and the boat to starboard of you were all called over early, so how could you, the furthest upwind not be over when the gun sounded at 8:12 of the video? But judging by your admission, you already know that you were OCS, so that wasn’t the point of your post.
When you said that we should just settle this on the water before the last race, you can’t imagine how great it felt later to actually beat you on the water in that final race showdown when the points all tied up for first. Aside from just the competitive angle of it, now we can encourage you to take the fair and sportsmanlike action with absolutely no benefit to our own scores for the series. Had we not delivered the beat down on the water in the final race, you might just say we are ‘crying sour grapes’ about losing on the water, so we had to resort to other means to win. This is now only about Hamachi’s integrity and doing the right thing.

As you know (since we told you), when the start happened from our vantage point it was clear that you were over early. You can clearly see in the video where the boat to starboard of you (Whiplash) dove down to parallel the line, was pointed at your stern and still Whiplash was over, so we turned back to restart. Also, a bummer for you that your bowman didn’t realize he was standing on the wrong side of the line. I can understand that it is hard to accept the RC called three others over but not you, so I appreciate your post’s recognition that “rules are clear RC is not required to hail all the OCS boats.” So, why didn’t they call out your numbers? We don’t know. We guessed that because we couldn’t read your numbers at that time (we were looking) that neither could the race committee, so therefore they didn’t call your numbers out. To be clear, we don’t think you intentionally chose such difficult numbers to read; it’s just a fact that might mitigate the RC’s failure to call to be understandable. Our red numbers aren’t the greatest contrast either, but were certainly clear enough for the RC to see and call out our numbers as over. At the end of the race, we were surprised that you were scored, but we were not going to protest the race committee over it— another competitor, Tai Kaui, seemed a whole lot more mad than us. We felt that it was just bad luck for the fleet that Hamachi ‘got away with one’. But then the video surfaced and played over and over at every single monitor at the club, the event website, and the Mount gay rum party, where it was clear that you were over --though ultimately not in a legally admissible way. We were surprised that after seeing that video you filed your protest and were fighting for your score re-instatement. Or maybe if you wanted to make a point about the procedure of it, you could have protested, won your protest on the procedural point, then took your OCS. But you didn’t. So the Rule 2 sportsmanship protest and request for redress for the whole fleet other than Hamachi was prepared by Whiplash. After we beat you on the water, it seemed vindictive to go to the room after the war was already over. But now you’ve started in the Sailing Anarchy forum, and thus our response.

So there is lots more that could be said, speculated or quoted about this incident, but in the interest of brevity, we summarize: Hamachi currently has a 2nd place in race 4 for which it was OCS. For some reason understandable only by you, you would have withdrawn if you beat Whiplash, but haven’t withdrawn as of now even knowing that it impacts Beecom’s podium position-- “Had we withdrawn from race 4 we still would have had a podium finish (3rd instead of 2nd).” So do it, take the OCS--- you still have the ability to do the right thing. I’ll close with a Paul Elvstrom quote that yet another HPR class competitor on Rock and Roll (Farr 400) apparently sent to your tactician prior to the last race: "You haven't won the race, if in winning the race you have lost the respect of your competitors." To be clear, right now you do not have the respect of your competitors, but you have the ability to change some of that, now that the adrenaline of competition has faded. We have no hard feelings and hope you do what is best for the sport. We wish Hamachi well and let's all move on.

 

ease hike trim

Super Anarchist
1,580
16
Did X Ray come down after the other OCS boats restarted?

If so, Himachi was not OCS, regardless of which side of the line they were on when the gun went off.

Period.

 

ease hike trim

Super Anarchist
1,580
16
...and if their moral compass swung 180 degrees they would be taking an RAF, not "asking to be rescored OCS". Just a clerical point.

 

SF Woody Sailor

Super Anarchist
1,112
394
Don, thank you. It is nice to know that there is at least one intelligent, articulate, moral person left on our little blue sphere.

 

dog of war

Member
400
18
bay area
I had to come check this out and once again SA didn't disappoint me still a bunch of post race bitching mostly by people who weren't even there........Some mistakes were made at this years BBS and one fleet even sailed a extra race because of it but all in all another fun regatta. I'll be back next year and most of you will still be bitching about it not sailing in it or doing anything to make it better.

Keep it classy SA!!!!!!!

 

Dixie

Reporters
3,626
0
SF
In response to Post #75 by Hamachi. Posted on behalf of Don, owner of Whiplash.

It was a refreshing surprise to now learn from your post that on Hamachi we had agreed that if we beat Whiplash and won our class, we would have withdrawn from race 4. Your admission is consistent with nearly everyones view that factually you were OCS in race 4 (though perhaps you didnt realize it at the time of the incident-- to give you the benefit of the doubt). The problem is that based on your forum post, your moral compass is still pointing in the wrong direction because your admission that you would have withdrawn doesnt automatically make it all right. You correctly point out if you withdrew that you would still be on the podium, however, the problem is that you have improperly claimed the wrong trophy on that podium as 2nd place should belong to Beecom. As time passes, I doubt anyone will remember whether Hamachi got a 2nd or a 3rd but people tend to have long memories for stuff like this. If you know or subsequently learn that you are OCS, the fair and sportsmanlike thing to do is request that you are scored OCS, not fight to have your score re-instated and then hang onto that score despite the knowledge that you now know that 2nd place score is incorrect. In a sport where sailors, for example, voluntarily accept penalties when they touch a mark and nobody sees them, it is corrosive to the integrity of the sport we hold dear for you to know, at whatever point, that you are OCS and not formally accept it, even when it is caught on video and asserted by the Race Committee which you protested.

Addressing some of the points that you raised --- so you won your redress procedural battle based on the sole Jury conclusion of the RC made error using information not of its (sic) own observation to score; not a complete surprise there. We respect the decisions of the International Jury in your case and others, none of which we were a party to. T2PTVs policy is to intentionally not be on the start line so they dont get dragged into every protest hearing for every regatta they cover. That said, it is pretty obvious that you are over early from the linked video segment starting at 8:03.

And that, my friends, is what I call a well reasoned, sportsmanlike response. Well done, Don. And congratulations to you and the team for winning the regatta.

 

DogBalls

Super Anarchist
1,066
0
Planet Earth
In response to Post #75 by Hamachi. Posted on behalf of Don, owner of Whiplash.

It was a refreshing surprise to now learn from your post that on Hamachi we had agreed that if we beat Whiplash and won our class, we would have withdrawn from race 4. Your admission is consistent with nearly everyones view that factually you were OCS in race 4 (though perhaps you didnt realize it at the time of the incident-- to give you the benefit of the doubt). The problem is that based on your forum post, your moral compass is still pointing in the wrong direction because your admission that you would have withdrawn doesnt automatically make it all right. You correctly point out if you withdrew that you would still be on the podium, however, the problem is that you have improperly claimed the wrong trophy on that podium as 2nd place should belong to Beecom. As time passes, I doubt anyone will remember whether Hamachi got a 2nd or a 3rd but people tend to have long memories for stuff like this. If you know or subsequently learn that you are OCS, the fair and sportsmanlike thing to do is request that you are scored OCS, not fight to have your score re-instated and then hang onto that score despite the knowledge that you now know that 2nd place score is incorrect. In a sport where sailors, for example, voluntarily accept penalties when they touch a mark and nobody sees them, it is corrosive to the integrity of the sport we hold dear for you to know, at whatever point, that you are OCS and not formally accept it, even when it is caught on video and asserted by the Race Committee which you protested.

Addressing some of the points that you raised --- so you won your redress procedural battle based on the sole Jury conclusion of the RC made error using information not of its (sic) own observation to score; not a complete surprise there. We respect the decisions of the International Jury in your case and others, none of which we were a party to. T2PTVs policy is to intentionally not be on the start line so they dont get dragged into every protest hearing for every regatta they cover. That said, it is pretty obvious that you are over early from the linked video segment starting at 8:03.

Kinda guessing that "Don" is not the author..... Being on behalf of "Don" and all.....

Any guesses as to who "Don" is?

 

MauiPunter

Will sail for food
I had to come check this out and once again SA didn't disappoint me still a bunch of post race bitching mostly by people who weren't even there........Some mistakes were made at this years BBS and one fleet even sailed a extra race because of it but all in all another fun regatta. I'll be back next year and most of you will still be bitching about it not sailing in it or doing anything to make it better.

Keep it classy SA!!!!!!!
Im sure it was a blast. Im just lamenting about the past. I must be getting old. I just miss the variety of boats on the water in the 80s when I was racing regularly. In those days the BBS meant maxi and mini-maxis. Time's a changing....

 

BGeff

Super Anarchist
3,495
256
Ann Arbor, MI
I had to come check this out and once again SA didn't disappoint me still a bunch of post race bitching mostly by people who weren't even there........Some mistakes were made at this years BBS and one fleet even sailed a extra race because of it but all in all another fun regatta. I'll be back next year and most of you will still be bitching about it not sailing in it or doing anything to make it better.

Keep it classy SA!!!!!!!
Im sure it was a blast. Im just lamenting about the past. I must be getting old. I just miss the variety of boats on the water in the 80s when I was racing regularly. In those days the BBS meant maxi and mini-maxis. Time's a changing....
Right on! Why do you think I switched over to big multihulls in the early part of the 90s? Miss the ol' Invest Or Retire days at times.

 
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