rs aero

Reht

Super Anarchist
2,758
6
It tends to go hand-in-hand. Fleets mean knowledge, enthusiastic supporters and promoters, secondhand boats, spare parts, etc. A boat doesn't have to have fleet sailing/racing to be successful, but it does need some of the aforementioned aspects.

 

Alex W

Super Anarchist
3,316
310
Seattle, WA
They would have my deposit already if I knew that there was a fleet of them racing weekly on Puget Sound. The boat looks awesome, but I don't want to make the investment if I'm the only one with one. Having a fleet means having 5 owners ready to race at Shilshole every Thursday.

 

couchsurfer

Super Anarchist
18,322
132
NA westcoast
They would have my deposit already if I knew that there was a fleet of them racing weekly on Puget Sound. The boat looks awesome, but I don't want to make the investment if I'm the only one with one. Having a fleet means having 5 owners ready to race at Shilshole every Thursday.
.

...umm,,why not take that 'they',,,make it a 'we',,,,,,,,talk to some friends!!!

....no builder or dealer can force things on their own

....there's a certain amount of taking things in one's own hands that can come up with surprising results--juss'saying! :huh: ;)

 

Alex W

Super Anarchist
3,316
310
Seattle, WA
I should give myself my own deposit? That would be interesting.

I understand your point. I'm more interested in sailing than in driving adoption of a new fleet from zero people. If I knew of a couple of others in Seattle buying them and interested in racing them at Shilshole or SSP then I'd do my best to get a couple extra people interested.

 

WestCoast

Super Anarchist
Alex - From some informal conversations I've had with some Seattle sailors, this boat is of quite some interest.
Time will tell, but I've got my GoPro packed and I've promised a number of SLF customers a full report on the boat after our testing them next month.

There is some talk of RS expanding the intro offer to the first 500 boats, as demand looks to hit that at least in the first year, but their call.

We are already have orders for the boat here, so in the next year when it actually arrives in North America, there could be *quite* a few heading this way.

 

dogwatch

Super Anarchist
16,453
1,347
South Coast, UK
I'm saying they should do it for their own benefit - so they make a lot of money, instead of just a little money!
Good Lord. This company has successfully launched several successful classes in what is probably the most competitive dinghy market in the world. They do actually have a clue.
 

Fleet3

New member
35
0
We bought a Fleet Purchase of 5 Megabytes in 2006. Initially the class grew to about 8 boats making for great one design racing for a few years. Then people moved on and the used boats went elsewhere, so there was no longer one design racing. We attempted to get a realistic Portsmouth rating so that the Megabyte could compete in the open class, but the provisional rating killed this, as very good sailors were beat by mid-fleet racers in other old established classes with favorable ratings. You knew if a XXXX showed up, you had little possibility of placing in the open class due to the rating correction, so why bother. Before I risk another $7K on a new boat, I want to see how it does in both in a one-design setting, and and open class setting. I also think that the Portsmouth rating system needs to encourage, rather than discourage new classes. Their provisional rating tends to rate new classes faster than they really are and only through years of data is it slowly adjusted up to where it should have been. Likewise these old classes with sailors that routinely smash the ratings need to start over and be redone. Once years of data is collected on these old classes, the rating never gets adjusted much. US Sailing has designed a system that discourages new classes and encourages pimping out old tugs. Try getting 5 boats to show up for a regatta so you can have one design when the entire fleet is 8 boats - it is really hard.

The Aero looks perfect - can I lease one for a few years with the option to buy?

 

jwlbrace

Super Anarchist
1,245
0
A34 - due south
Is the D Zero a viable alternative in the States, or is that seen as aiming for a different market?

We probably should post this in the D-Zero thread, but yes - AIUI it will be available Stateside.

Might be worth hooking up with Roman at Devoti Sailing to find our who/where/how etc.

I won't add a link given the thread this is in - google if you want it.

As for different markets- subtle difference will shine through and manifest into customer preferences. That's natural, but they are essentially both nice little beach boats for folks to enjoy simple, hassle free sailing. Pick the one you like, sail against the guys in the other ones too.... Why the hell not, the best sailor will win and buy the first beer for the privilege of line honours....

 

BobBill

Super Anarchist
4,611
101
SE Minnesota.
Fleet 3 +1. One aspect of sailing and ownership that is not static or controllable, unless boat are club-owned.

 
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Fleet3

New member
35
0
The resale market is very fickle. With the Megbyte resales here on the West Coast, some sold quickly at a slightly below reasonable price, others in the same condition had no takers and were sold at a fraction their value or donated to clubs/schools. The Megabyte is a fantastic boat so what happened? Initial adopters don't want to get stuck with a new design boat that after a few years has no resale value. So Jwlbrace is right but only if there is a healthy resale market. This doesn't happen if the boats don't get a critical mass in an area and there is no local dealer support. This "valley of death", not enough initial sales in an area, little or no resale market, means even a $7000 entry price can be a big hurtle. I'd be money ahead if I chartered a boat at $250 per weekend.

I can't point to a single new design in the dingy market that has really taken off in the last 20 years. What are we doing wrong and how can we make great boats like the Aero succeed here in the US? Why are we stuck in crappy 1970 or earlier designs? Or are new dinghy's simply a small boutique market here in the US? If that's the case we should work on encouraging open class competition in new boats. Too bad fiberglass doesn't deteriorate completely after 30 years so these tired old designs would go away.

 

BobBill

Super Anarchist
4,611
101
SE Minnesota.
Perhaps the Interclub and other dinghies are not so crappy...and people are finally figuring that out? Trends do not mean much, in the long haul, something else lmakes for sustainabi.lity,,,like class, wordplay intended.

 

WestCoast

Super Anarchist
I'd suggest in Europe at least, dozens of dinghy classes have been launched successfully in the last 30 years.

Additionally, in the US we've added 29ers (hundreds), O'Pen Bics (thousands), RS Fevas (hundreds), Wetas (hundred), Teras (hundreds) in just the last 10 years.

Sure, it's not the same as the '70's & 80's when everyone was getting a small fiberglass boat for the first time, but dinghy classes are alive and well in the US.

What will impact a boat like an Aero will be the ability for sailors to see a significant advantage to move from their existing class to this one.

Historically, like Fleet3 points out, people who have made the change have gotten burned... which makes people reasonably gunshy about trying again on another new model...

--

That said, I'm looking forward to sailing the Aero this month and generating a lot of video footage. We're going to interview the design team as best we can and get an indepth look at the design and setup of the boat.

I'm racing my Laser actively again to be able to effectively compare both boats.

Even looking at the J/70, you start to realize the right company, with the right product, can hit a grand slam and build fleets rapidly....

I've been selling and supporting small sailboats exclusively for almost a decade now, and I have something that tells me that boat could be the Aero.

We will find out soon enough... !

 
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Fleet3

New member
35
0
Good points - UK does have many successful single handed new designs, we just can't seem to make it happen in the US. I think a measure of success, at least for one design racing here, are sales in the thousands, not hundreds. There were nearly 400 Megabytes sold, but exceedingly difficult to get 5 to show up at a regatta. There were 8000 Banshees sold and only two fleets left. I've never seen an RS Feva or a Teras at a regatta and I would consider Wetas and 29ers outside of the single handed dinghy category. So other than Laser, what is a single handed adult dinghy class typically at regattas that was designed in the 40 years?

Certainly all sailing does not need to be in a regatta, but part of the fun is spending the weekend with your friends and regattas are a good excuse. My point is that we need to encourage regattas to embrace new designs. Why did the editor get so mad about not getting to sail his new Shaw at the High Sierra Regatta? They are not set-up to take one-off boats and the Forest Service 150 boat limit makes it so the open class is the first thing to go. Crappy to spend so much on a boat and not be able to race it.

 

us7070

Super Anarchist
10,229
243
it's totally pointless to race dinghies any way other than one design.

I have absolutely zero interest in buying a dinghy that i can't race one-design on the day i buy it.

If I want to sail for fun, I windsurf - the best single handed sailboat ever invented.., in my opinion anyway...

 

Fleet3

New member
35
0
I've seen Wetas single handed and double handed with a child. They are really nice boats just not my thing. Wetas have done very well here in Northern California and I agree they are a solid success. They didn't replace any old dinghy designs, but rather filled in between dinghies and multihulls. I want a modern one design monohull to replace my old Banshee.

My criteria when selecting the Megabytes was a 13-14' monohull, single handed, single hoisting sail, modern carbon rig and self draining cockpit. The Megabyte did well on 4 out of the 5 criteria (it had damn bailers), and we have 4 other people in the group purchase. The Aero hits all five of the criteria and uses e-glass for light weight.

Maybe RS Sailing, DZero and other manufacturers could write US Sailing and let them know to encourage open classes at regattas and to not penalize new boats with overly fast provisional ratings that take years to get to where they should be. People making an investment in a new boat should be allowed a venue to sail and compete, while not being penalized with a harsh provisional rating. US Sail should encourage innovation and new boats, not be a protector of the status quo.

Certainly one design racing is the only way to go in the long run, but you need venues to compete until a critical mass is established, otherwise new replacement modern designs don't have a chance. The best way to encourage new boat designs to take off is to have them win in the open class being driven by good sailors, rather encouraging pimped out 1960 vintage designs being driven by good sailors, that take advantage of their generous, but statistically "accurate" rating.

What is the Aero's Portsmouth's rating and how many people in Northern California are signed up to by one? I'm very interested, just cautious having been burned once already betting on a new class.

 
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