rs aero

Bill5

Super Anarchist
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Western Canada
A couple things. Firstly, you simply can't compare the US with the UK. The entire island is smaller than California. If you drive for more than three hours over there most locals consider you crazy. In the US or Canada, driving from coast to coast lugging a couple boats behind you is going to be 36 - 48 hours driving time. So in the UK you have every single sailor and sailing location likely within an 8 hour drive - and that is pretty extreme. In the US and Canada, boats and sailors are spread very thin, with a few areas of concentration. Additionally, sales and distribution of boats and parts is nowehere near as complex in the UK. The result of the concentration of sailors, boats, and venues is larger regattas for all sorts of boats.

Secondly - the Aero is a great looking boat, and should get some traction. Interestingly, though, as pointed out by WestCoast, there will need to be migration from other classes - with some extremists citing the death of the Laser. So the net effect will be the shrinking of some classes as the Aero grows. That's OK - the market will do what the market will do. But I don't think it is fair to herald the Aero or any other boat as any kind of a saviour. The RS folks are certainly not suggesting that.

So there are some cool new boats on the market. That's great but is really going to stimulate new growth in sailing?

,

 

dogwatch

Super Anarchist
16,453
1,347
South Coast, UK
So in the UK you have every single sailor and sailing location likely within an 8 hour drive
England, Scotland and Wales are small but not that small. Road distance John o'Groats to Lands End is 847 miles. It's been done in a shade over 11 hours on a motorbike but that was in the 1980s. With the speed cameras in operation these days, the fines you'd get attempting to beat that don't bear thinking about.
You might get a bit wet attempting driving to Northern Island, which is also part of the UK. As are the Isles of Scilly, which is certainly a "sailing location".

As a realistic example, people do tow boats from the south coast to do the Scottish Series and that's going to take 14 hours without much time for stops, bearing in mind much of the mileage north of Glasgow will be at 30mph.

 
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couchsurfer

Super Anarchist
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NA westcoast
.....once went lands end to scotland somewhere with some englandians,,towing a trailer,,

,,,,when the car broke-down on the return trip,,the Auto association was called,

,,,,,,,,we ended up getting car ,trailer delivered back to lands end,driving through the night as we slept in the back

..............always wished they had the same service in NA :rolleyes:

 
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jwlbrace

Super Anarchist
1,245
0
A34 - due south
So in the UK you have every single sailor and sailing location likely within an 8 hour drive
England, Scotland and Wales are small but not that small. Road distance John o'Groats to Lands End is 847 miles. It's been done in a shade over 11 hours on a motorbike but that was in the 1980s. With the speed cameras in operation these days, the fines you'd get attempting to beat that don't bear thinking about.
You might get a bit wet attempting driving to Northern Island, which is also part of the UK. As are the Isles of Scilly, which is certainly a "sailing location".

As a realistic example, people do tow boats from the south coast to do the Scottish Series and that's going to take 14 hours without much time for stops, bearing in mind much of the mileage north of Glasgow will be at 30mph.

only the most committed would do that.... not sure many prospective 'Aero' owners would. RS classes have traditionally been relatively south coast centric when it comes to major events (except winter events at the same 5 puddles within 2 hours of London).

I know the 300 boys like Prestwick (and Filey), but they're a bit special.... in a good way.

 

Chris 249

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It must surely be immensely easier to achieve critical mass for a new class in a much smaller country with a vastly more concentrated population, though. I'm planning a Traveller's Trophy next year for our region; it contains the national capital yet has less than a 30th of the population density of England; the only region in the Uk with a lower population density is the Scottish Highlands. It's hard enough to get critical mass when you are dealing with the most popular established classes; getting class racing in a brand-new class would be close to impossible.

The low popularity of sailing in the US must also have a similar effect, surely? Yeah, they are packed together like sardines :D but they're almost all non-sailing sardines, so how could you get a fleet of a new class together?

On a bit of a tangent - is it fair to say that most major sailing countries bar the US have a Laser alternative that is NOT a SMOD? I'm thinking about UK/Dutch Solos, German Finns/O-Jolles, Scandinavian Europes and OKs, Kiwi Zephyrs and Aussie Sabres and Impulses, and OKs in lots of places. Is it better for a country to have a Laser alternative that is a "normal" multi-supplier one design, rather than having a Laser alternative that is also a SMOD? Is the lack of a boat that fits in the Solo/Sabre/OK niche a major problem for US sailing as a whole, because it may reduce choice and the small supplier? It would surely hurt Oz and British sailing if we didn't have Solos, Phantoms, Impulses and Sabres.

 
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BobBill

Super Anarchist
4,611
101
SE Minnesota.
If I were a wet boat fan, and younger-Aero! the price seems right for younger set and boat has appeal.

And, I think I am typical dodger...

Alas, I older and prefer boats I can stand on...or in and whereon I can swill...

 

couchsurfer

Super Anarchist
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133
NA westcoast
It must surely be immensely easier to achieve critical mass for a new class in a much smaller country with a vastly more concentrated population, though. I'm planning a Traveller's Trophy next year for our region; it contains the national capital yet has less than a 30th of the population density of England; the only region in the Uk with a lower population density is the Scottish Highlands. It's hard enough to get critical mass when you are dealing with the most popular established classes; getting class racing in a brand-new class would be close to impossible.

The low popularity of sailing in the US must also have a similar effect, surely? Yeah, they are packed together like sardines :D but they're almost all non-sailing sardines, so how could you get a fleet of a new class together?

On a bit of a tangent - is it fair to say that most major sailing countries bar the US have a Laser alternative that is NOT a SMOD? I'm thinking about UK/Dutch Solos, German Finns/O-Jolles, Scandinavian Europes and OKs, Kiwi Zephyrs and Aussie Sabres and Impulses, and OKs in lots of places. Is it better for a country to have a Laser alternative that is a "normal" multi-supplier one design, rather than having a Laser alternative that is also a SMOD? Is the lack of a boat that fits in the Solo/Sabre/OK niche a major problem for US sailing as a whole, because it may reduce choice and the small supplier? It would surely hurt Oz and British sailing if we didn't have Solos, Phantoms, Impulses and Sabres.
.

...that's an interesting irony you point out Chris--even though the overall demographics are stronger in England,,,a new design competes with all the choices available!

.....maybe it's true all over that the best way for a class to gain traction is when a few sailors get together in an area,,,make a group decision as to what they focus on

If I were a wet boat fan, and younger-Aero! the price seems right for younger set and boat has appeal.

And, I think I am typical dodger...

Alas, I older and prefer boats I can stand on...or in and whereon I can swill...
.

...a good reason there's so many designs to choose from!

.

 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
42,255
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Eastern NC
.....maybe it's true all over that the best way for a class to gain traction is when a few sailors get together in an area,,,make a group decision as to what they focus on
In my limited experience trying to do this, what happens is that either 1- a super-salesman type convinces everyone to buy a boat that is not well suited to local waters and/or the persons'physiques/temperament, and the class dies quick or 2- a group convenes and begins a shouting match over "we need the XYZ 15" ... "no no that's a terrible boat, anybody who doesn't want a ABC 15.1 is an idiot" etc etc and nothing at all happens.

Anyway, the Aero looks like a good idea. The boats promise both uniformity and longevity which is less common in US one-design boats. The price will seem a bit steep when people are comparison shopping because you can get a 30-foot fixer upper for the same number of dollars.

FB- Doug

 

Bill5

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Western Canada
OK, OK - I didn't include the Northern Island or the Isles of Skilly. But I didn't contemplate St.John's Newfoundland either, which is 800 miles closer to London than it is to Vancouver... But I think my point is understood. This link shows the numbers of boats at the UK Nationals last year. 20 classes had at least 50, and 10 had 90+. And many of these boats would have been unheard of outside the UK. http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/class/attendance.aspx

It's fun (in a sailing-nerd kinda way) to analyze these numbers and try to determine trends. But how many classes in the US can boast a fairly steady 50+ at their nationals? It would be great if the Aero could accomplish this over time!

 

John D

Member
492
22
Sebastian, FL
Maybe RS Sailing, DZero and other manufacturers could write US Sailing and let them know to encourage open classes at regattas and to not penalize new boats with overly fast provisional ratings that take years to get to where they should be. People making an investment in a new boat should be allowed a venue to sail and compete, while not being penalized with a harsh provisional rating. US Sail should encourage innovation and new boats, not be a protector of the status quo.

Certainly one design racing is the only way to go in the long run, ( disagree, in some areas you will never have effective OD racing but handicap racing is better than none. And, a more effective system would make the handicap racing that much better)but you need venues to compete until a critical mass is established, otherwise new replacement modern designs don't have a chance. The best way to encourage new boat designs to take off is to have them win in the open class being driven by good sailors, rather encouraging pimped out 1960 vintage designs being driven by good sailors, that take advantage of their generous, but statistically "accurate" rating.
US Sailing has been approached and by their total lack of effective response, has no interest in doing what is necessary to promote portsmouth handicap racing. With today's technology handicaps could be adjusted, updated and epublished every week. What is needed is a new organization to take a pro active approach and get -r-done. UK and OZ are much better in this area than US

 

Bill5

Super Anarchist
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Western Canada
Another activity that's much different in the UK. Handicap racing and pursuit racing (slower boats start first; fastest last) are extremely popular. From Y&Y: "The Bloody Mary Pursuit Race was held for the 41st time this weekend at Queen Mary Sailing Club attracting 332 entries in 66 classes from 110 clubs all around the country." And this is for a single race - not a weekend series. How fun would this be? I bet there's a pint or two involved....Now this is an extreme example, but there are several pursuit races in the UK over the entire season that appear to be well-attended. I would think RS will have some Aeros at these events!

 

couchsurfer

Super Anarchist
18,322
133
NA westcoast
.

...to me H'cap racing loses meaning,,but a fun boat is fun,,even on one's own!

..I think many of us have gotten accustomed to sailing un-fun boats--hence the need of a fleet of same to make them interesting and relevant. :mellow:

 

ortegakid

Super Anarchist
2,588
149
Whitesboro,TEXAS
Another activity that's much different in the UK. Handicap racing and pursuit racing (slower boats start first; fastest last) are extremely popular. From Y&Y: "The Bloody Mary Pursuit Race was held for the 41st time this weekend at Queen Mary Sailing Club attracting 332 entries in 66 classes from 110 clubs all around the country." And this is for a single race - not a weekend series. How fun would this be? I bet there's a pint or two involved....Now this is an extreme example, but there are several pursuit races in the UK over the entire season that appear to be well-attended. I would think RS will have some Aeros at these events!
See how that works? We have the beginnings of such here in Texas, and at the HPDO, just need to promote more and attend more, look at the front page with the drag race at SC, now that looks epic fun!

 

WestCoast

Super Anarchist
If you haven't read the Aero design brief, it's in a PDF and available online.

Pretty cool to see the development team and their thoughts made public.

RS Aero Design Brief

--

I know there are already Aeros that will be in Texas. Not sure how many are pre-ordered, but it's already underway :)

 

ortegakid

Super Anarchist
2,588
149
Whitesboro,TEXAS
Great stuff George, looking forward to trying one when they come, keep us posted and share vid!

And great design brief, very interesting reading!

 
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us7070

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10,229
243
So, is it outhaul and cunningham to each side, and vang to the middle?

The action shots are nice, but some close-ups of the hull and rigging would be pretty informative for people wondering how it compares to their current boat.

does the bevel make it more comfortable to hike than, say, a Laser?

Will there be one in New England to demo anytime soon?

 

us7070

Super Anarchist
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243
.

...to me H'cap racing loses meaning,,but a fun boat is fun,,even on one's own!

..I think many of us have gotten accustomed to sailing un-fun boats--hence the need of a fleet of same to make them interesting and relevant. :mellow:

but when it comes to sailing dinghies, i mostly want to race..,

i'm not going to buy a dinghy just to sail it for fun

i'm not interested in handicap racing - i'd rather race an un-fun boat OD

like i said above, if i want to sail a singlehander for fun, i will windsurf.

 

tillerman

Super Anarchist
5,182
2,472
Rhode Island
So, is it outhaul and cunningham to each side, and vang to the middle?

The action shots are nice, but some close-ups of the hull and rigging would be pretty informative for people wondering how it compares to their current boat.

does the bevel make it more comfortable to hike than, say, a Laser?

Will there be one in New England to demo anytime soon?
I hear that Scott Hardy of the Boat Locker in CT will have a couple of RS Aeros to demo this summer. First customer orders are scheduled for delivery in North America in March 2015.

 
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