Grande Mastere Dreade
Snag's spellchecker
can blue, being leeward, take yellow up for a closer rounding, or can yellow go wide and tight..
rules : how much room are you entitled to
- Thread starter Grande Mastere Dreade
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Grande Mastere Dreade
Snag's spellchecker
- Thread starter
- #4
ok, so which rule prevents that..
bloodshot
Super Anarchist
definition of mark-room & cases 25/70?
There is no rule preventing it, the inside boat is not entitled to it. It's up to the outside boat to give any 'extra' room, they can refuse if they want
Blue here is the right of way boat (Leeward), but is restricted by Rule 18 (Mark-Room) with regards to how much room needs to be given. That means that Blue has an obligation to keep clear of Yellow unless sailing within room she is entitled. Yellow has an obligation to give mark-room to blue.
Mark-room is defined as: Room for a boat to leave a mark on the required side. Also,
The case book generally points to a seamanlike rounding as being the tightest rounding possible in which a boat can be competently handled. This is usually tighter than a tactical rounding would be. In the example you posted it's possible that blue could have luffed yellow closer to the mark provided that Yellow could make a seamanlike rounding with the amount of room given.
In a protest room, disputes over mark-room generally result in no penalty or are decided in favor of the inside boat. It takes substantial evidence that the inside boat took extra room for them to be disqualified.
Mark-room is defined as: Room for a boat to leave a mark on the required side. Also,
- Room to sail to the mark when her proper course is to sail close to it
- Room to round or pass the mark as necessary to sail the course without touching the mark.
- The word promptly here is important; it requires a boat entitled to room to maneuver quickly and without delay.
- "Seamanlike way" is a term that is open to interpretation. Its meaning is clarified in the case book:
CASE 118
In the definition Mark-Room, the phrase ‘room to sail to the mark’ means space to sail promptly in a seamanlike way to a position close to, and on the required side of, the mark.
CASE 103
The phrase ‘seamanlike way’ in the definition Room refers to boat-handling that can reasonably be expected from a competent, but not expert, crew of the appropriate number for the boat
CASE 21
When a right-of-way boat is obligated to give mark-room to a boat overlapped inside her, there is no maximum or minimum amount of space that she must give. The amount of space that she must give depends significantly on the existing conditions including wind and sea conditions, the speed of the inside boat, the sails she has set and her design characteristics.
The case book generally points to a seamanlike rounding as being the tightest rounding possible in which a boat can be competently handled. This is usually tighter than a tactical rounding would be. In the example you posted it's possible that blue could have luffed yellow closer to the mark provided that Yellow could make a seamanlike rounding with the amount of room given.
In a protest room, disputes over mark-room generally result in no penalty or are decided in favor of the inside boat. It takes substantial evidence that the inside boat took extra room for them to be disqualified.
Marty Gingras
Mid-range Anarchist
That's exactly what I wondered. Best bet is to do something to not be overlapped that deep into the corner.
nolatom
Super Anarchist
It's one of those times it would pay you to slow your speed enough to be just astern of lead boat's transom rather than overlapped "outside". Overtrim your main way in, luff your jib, waggle your rudder. There are several "slow down and win" articles around, here's one:
Slow Down To Win
instructional advice on tactics, strategy, speed, boathandling and rules
Snaggletooth
SA's Morrelle Compasse
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At pointe 2 - I woude slowe dowen, swing bowe behinde yellowe stern foire the marke.
Snaggletooth
SA's Morrelle Compasse
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At pointe 2 - I woude slowe dowen, swing bowe behinde yellowe stern foire the marke.
If you're blue, and you slow down to get clear astern of yellow, as yellow makes a wide tactical rounding and you start accelerating again, you might think you have room to stick your nose in between yellow and the mark. That is the devil speaking to you, and listening is a classic newbie mistake.
Snaggletooth
SA's Morrelle Compasse
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Oh yes! The Howler Dissente, as if to saye "I no bettere then you....." leade on brothere.....
Definitely slow down as Snaggy suggests! Just don't get suckered into that beautiful wide open space. When I warn someone about a mistake, I speak with authority: I limit my warnings to mistakes that I myself have extensive experience making.Oh yes! The Howler Dissente, as if to saye "I no bettere then you....." leade on brothere.....
Snaggletooth
SA's Morrelle Compasse
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Grande Mastere Dreade
Snag's spellchecker
- Thread starter
- #16
ok, let's move the mark one hatch mark to the left, inside boat has swept wide, blue boat, not having slowed down, is outside and leeward, at what point can blue start taking yellow up or how much room does blue have to let yellow keep clear..
As blue you should push yellow up as long as yellow can still avoid the mark.
If yellow won't move, protest them, but avoid hitting them and make sure they have enough room to pass the mark. As long as yellow can safely pass between you and the mark, and you don't hit them you can't be dsq'd (you are the right of way boat after all).
If possible you should push yellow up well before the mark, and as several people have noted, then slow down and be right behind them at the mark. If you push them up before the 3BL point you don't have to leave them any room, just be ready to steer down when you get to the circle.
Yet another variation.
The proper course is to jibe with a kite. How is seamanlike rounding then defined? More room for a boat with a symmetric kite, especially in a shorthand race with big boats?
Before the jibe inner boat with room has RoW, but after jibe not. Just after the main has been jibed you can't really head up in a seamanlike manner before you have have time to adjust sheets. This would blow the spinnaker between the headstay and mast.
If rounding is clockwise from port to starboard, the outer boat with asymmetric or without a kite could jibe much faster and become RoW.
The proper course is to jibe with a kite. How is seamanlike rounding then defined? More room for a boat with a symmetric kite, especially in a shorthand race with big boats?
Before the jibe inner boat with room has RoW, but after jibe not. Just after the main has been jibed you can't really head up in a seamanlike manner before you have have time to adjust sheets. This would blow the spinnaker between the headstay and mast.
If rounding is clockwise from port to starboard, the outer boat with asymmetric or without a kite could jibe much faster and become RoW.
