Rules Question - an odd Rule 18 situation

G

Guest

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Because traffic converges at the top mark, especially 1st time round, and 18.3 makes boat breaking carnage a bit less likely.
I understand why 18.3 exists, but you didn't really address my comment. Why is the same lee bow treated differently, i.e its legal in one instance during the beat but not at the mark? Its either legal or its not (provided 18.3 is not broken) but its not treated the same in the room. As has been said many times here, its practically impossible to win a tacking in the zone protest when that same lee bow anywhere else would be perfectly fine and accepted as a normal part of racing. If its to completely stop it, as you suggest, then the rules should simply say - no tacking inside the zone.

 
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Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
45,577
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Eastern NC
Because traffic converges at the top mark, especially 1st time round, and 18.3 makes boat breaking carnage a bit less likely.
I understand why 18.3 exists, but you didn't really address my comment. Why is the same lee bow treated differently, i.e its legal in one instance during the beat but not at the mark? Its either legal or its not (provided 18.3 is not broken) but its not treated the same in the room. As has been said many times here, its practically impossible to win a tacking in the zone protest when that same lee bow anywhere else would be perfectly fine and accepted as a normal part of racing. If its to completely stop it, as you suggest, then the rules should simply say - no tacking inside the zone.
If they did that, then all the traffic problems would just be moved to intersection between the port & starboard laylines at the 3BL zone.

The wrules writers have been trying for about 10 years (maybe longer) to reconcile the problem of "mark-room" versus "right-of-way." It used to be (back when dinosaurs roamed the Earth) that mark-room turned off right-of-way. That led to a lot of complicated situations and a long list of exceptions. Hilarity ensued.

Now there are two trends in rules- reducing the tactical advantage of right-of-way, and 'simplifying' by trying to reduce the number of exceptions to everything. So far, hilarity has not ensued.

FB- Doug

 

JimC

Not actually an anarchist.
8,192
1,097
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I understand why 18.3 exists, but you didn't really address my comment. Why is the same lee bow treated differently, i.e its legal in one instance during the beat but not at the mark?
Well, if we go back to first principles the rules were originally there to help us to avoid smashing the hell out of our boats. On the layline near the mark there is one piece of water everyone wants to go through, which isn't really the same anywhere else on the beat, so the less complicated the situation the better. Discouraging last second port tack approaches tacking in the zone takes a hell of a lot of complication out.

 
G

Guest

Guest
@ JimC and Doug - I get that and I understand the intent. But the rules still DO allow tacking in the zone. Can someone describe to me then a normal situation where a tacking boat could win that protest short of S being hugely over stood from the stbd LL?

 

Presuming Ed

Super Anarchist
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1) The part 2 rules are base on the idea of RoW/Give way, with modifiers. A "tacking in the zone is illegal" rule would be a complete change from that ethos.

2) From that, say you're not in any traffic and tack round the mark and your nearest competitor 100 yards behind protests you. I would feel a little aggreived to be chucked.

 
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JohnMB

Super Anarchist
2,853
620
Evanston
@ JimC and Doug - I get that and I understand the intent. But the rules still DO allow tacking in the zone. Can someone describe to me then a normal situation where a tacking boat could win that protest short of S being hugely over stood from the stbd LL?
SUrely the more important question is where a port tack boat can tack in the zone and not get protested because everyone around understands that what they did was totally legit.

In a tight one design fleet the starboard layline isn't one boat behind another (because that's slow) the second boat to the layline has to set up outside the first boat there. The third boat maybe even further out. so yes there can be space for the first boat on the port layline to come in underneath the second or third on stb... with plenty of space. The stb tack boats know theres space for a port tacker to come in there, but sucking air all the way to the mark isn't a great option either.

In a good one design fleet there's no protest to worry about because those lead boats know what the rules are and are more interested in getting position for an attack. on the downwind leg

 
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Grande Mastere Dreade

Snag's spellchecker
Because traffic converges at the top mark, especially 1st time round, and 18.3 makes boat breaking carnage a bit less likely.
I understand why 18.3 exists, but you didn't really address my comment. Why is the same lee bow treated differently, i.e its legal in one instance during the beat but not at the mark? Its either legal or its not (provided 18.3 is not broken) but its not treated the same in the room. As has been said many times here, its practically impossible to win a tacking in the zone protest when that same lee bow anywhere else would be perfectly fine and accepted as a normal part of racing. If its to completely stop it, as you suggest, then the rules should simply say - no tacking inside the zone.

the difference in two competitors aggresively tacking against each other in the middle of the course is it's a lot less congested than 5 - 10 boats trying to round a mark..

 
G

Guest

Guest
@ JimC and Doug - I get that and I understand the intent. But the rules still DO allow tacking in the zone. Can someone describe to me then a normal situation where a tacking boat could win that protest short of S being hugely over stood from the stbd LL?
SUrely the more important question is where a port tack boat can tack in the zone and not get protested because everyone around understands that what they did was totally legit.

In a tight one design fleet the starboard layline isn't one boat behind another (because that's slow) the second boat to the layline has to set up outside the first boat there. The third boat maybe even further out. so yes there can be space for the first boat on the port layline to come in underneath the second or third on stb... with plenty of space. The stb tack boats know theres space for a port tacker to come in there, but sucking air all the way to the mark isn't a great option either.

In a good one design fleet there's no protest to worry about because those lead boats know what the rules are and are more interested in getting position for an attack. on the downwind leg
Yep, that was my thought too.

 
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