rules question: obstruction

Grande Mastere Dreade

Grande Mastere Dreade

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well since we haven't had a shit fight on here for awhile..

in a video these were given as an example of an obstruction...   no quibbles there

untitled.jpg

but what of an un-anchored boat...     such as a dragon boat sitting there in the water and not moving,  but is easily  duckable..     kayak?  

 
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Snaggletooth

Snaggletooth

Morrelle Compasse
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A porte tacked vesselles our obstrauctiones and cane be hitte/collided withe/pusched oute of waye withoute penaltey........              :)

 
G

Gigantasy

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Oakland
I think a sailboat is the right-of-way vessel over a paddle-powered boat like a dragonboat/kayak, so they would not constitute an obstruction. This is actually something that could come up in the racing that happens at the Oakland-Alameda estuary, but I've never heard of it going to a protest...

 
Movable Ballast

Movable Ballast

Anarchist
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San Diego
Colregs take precedence if the Kayak or Duffy is just sitting there. Chances of any Duffy or Kayak owner knowing the colregs is slim to none... So just duck him...   

No rules to be broken... 

 
JohnMB

JohnMB

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Grande Mastere Dreade said:
but what of an un-anchored boat...     such as a dragon boat sitting there in the water and not moving,  but is easily  duckable..     kayak?  
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If you would have to steer (substantially) to duck it when its a length away, it's an obstruction.

Even if, under colregs, you are stand on boat, a give way boat who is not racing is still an obstruction. To understand what you can and cannot do about them you need to check the relevant rule. For example if it is obeying the colregs, and keeping clear, there is no reason for anyone to give you any room to avoid it.

The definition excludes boats racing that have to keep clear, but does exclude not boats who are not racing.

image.png

 
A

AnotherSailor

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Movable Ballast said:
Colregs take precedence if the Kayak or Duffy is just sitting there. Chances of any Duffy or Kayak owner knowing the colregs is slim to none... So just duck him...   

No rules to be broken... 
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Are you trying to start the shitfight???

Colregs apply at sea... Not very likely for the given scenario

 
B

bgytr

Super Anarchist
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Grande Mastere Dreade said:
well since we haven't had a shit fight on here for awhile..

in a video these were given as an example of an obstruction...   no quibbles there

View attachment 504497

but what of an un-anchored boat...     such as a dragon boat sitting there in the water and not moving,  but is easily  duckable..     kayak?  
Click to expand...
Overtaking boat keeps clear.  Highest priority, even a sailboat overtaking any other vessel must keep clear.  If a boat is not making way, and you are, you are by definition overtaking and must keep clear.

 
T

The Q

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Norfolk. The original one
Our inland laws ( Broads regulations) , are of priority,

Paddle craft have rights over sailing craft , we have to give way to paddle boards , rowing boats canoes etc proceeding along the navigation.

Sailing craft have rights over motorboats, Motorboats have to give way to sailing boats and paddle craft proceeding along the navigation.

( All Boats crossing the navigation, have to give way to boats proceeding along the navigation)

The RRS says,

"Obstruction

An object that a boat could not pass without changing course 
substantially, if she were sailing directly towards it and one of her hull 
lengths from it.

An object that can be safely passed on only one side and an 
object, area or line so designated by the sailing instructions are also 
obstructions.

However, a boat racing is not an obstruction to other boats 
unless they are required to keep clear of her or, if rule 22 applies, avoid her.
A vessel under way, including a boat racing, is never a continuing 
obstruction."

The RSS first line highlighted is the relevant one.

A non moving, not anchored, non competitor, is the same as an anchored one. ( How do you tell if they've not got an anchor cable down the other side of the boat).

Locally, we often come across an anchored boat on a broad, if you have an overlap approaching a moored boat it's time for the leeward boat to call for water..

The fun comes if the Leeward boat can pass to leeward of the obstruction, but the windward one can't.
 

 
N

nolatom

Super Anarchist
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New Orleans
Grande Mastere Dreade said:
well since we haven't had a shit fight on here for awhile..

in a video these were given as an example of an obstruction...   no quibbles there

View attachment 504497

but what of an un-anchored boat...     such as a dragon boat sitting there in the water and not moving,  but is easily  duckable..     kayak?  
Click to expand...
Wouldn't the un-anchored vessel be "not under command" under Rule 18?

 
C

ChiGuy

Super Anarchist
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random. said:
RRS and SI's do not apply if one of the intersecting vessels is not racing in the same event.

Normal rules of navigation apply to both vessels.
Click to expand...
Why do you say "in the same event"? 

 
12 metre

12 metre

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English Bay
The Q said:
The fun comes if the Leeward boat can pass to leeward of the obstruction, but the windward one can't.
Click to expand...
Even more fun when the obstruction is a ROW boat and 20 comes into effect.

Most people understand the concept of shore room - but not may seem to understand that a ROW vessel can also be an obstruction.  At least at the club level.

Even fewer seem to realize that once the hailing boat has competed their tack the regular Port-Starboard rules apply.

 
B

Brass

Super Anarchist
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ChiGuy said:
random. said:
RRS and SI's do not apply if one of the intersecting vessels is not racing in the same event.

Normal rules of navigation apply to both vessels.
Click to expand...
Why do you say "in the same event"? 
Click to expand...


random. said:
Haven't checked lately, but my reading was based on the NoR and SI's for that 'event' and the definition of Racing.   Events can differ e.g. some passage races can switch off RRS at night time, others do not.

Boats racing between navigation beacons have different behavior to those on windward/leeward.  But there is something there about it, couldn't be bothered looking it up right now.
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RRS apply to all boats that are entered in any event where the NOR state that they apply, and apply between boats that are in different events.

There is no qualification in the RRS that suggests otherwise, and RRS 63.8. Hearings Involving Parties in Different Events, speifically contemplates it.

NOR and SI, obviously only apply to the event they are written for, but NOR/SI cannot change the RRS rules of Part 2 (When Boats Meet), or the Definitions (including the definition of Obstruction), so they are unlikely to make any difference to a right-of-way or giving room situation.

 
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T

The Q

Super Anarchist
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Norfolk. The original one
12 metre said:
Even more fun when the obstruction is a ROW boat and 20 comes into effect.

Most people understand the concept of shore room - but not may seem to understand that a ROW vessel can also be an obstruction.  At least at the club level.

Even fewer seem to realize that once the hailing boat has competed their tack the regular Port-Starboard rules apply.
Click to expand...
They definitely do know (mostly) on the Norfolk Broads,  over the last 40years I've been caught and caught others on port immediately after settling on course having tacked away from the bank or ROW boat. It's a common event racing on narrow rivers.. There's often nothing you can do about it, there's just nowhere else to go. 

A photo of a quiet winter's day racing, couldn't find a start line photo, the start line is just to right of shot. It's at a 90 degree bend of the river..

image.png

Our start line is 180ft.. the width of the river, a 15 boat start of 20ft keel boats is not uncommon.... Add in tourists, driving 40ft hire motorboats who have never read our equivalent of colregs. They have had only a half hours instruction of how to drive the boat, and may have been to the pubs.. ( you'll note I say drive not helm)

You can see the problems we have.

 
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