Rushour on its roof.

Rantifarian

Rantifarian
So Drew, in the same situation, would you dump main and bear off, or dump jib and head up? Everyone talks about having a hand on the main, but it is often luffing and partially depowered in these sorts of conditions anyway. Jib is almost always full and powered up

 

Wess

Super Anarchist
Brief report for the benefit of others.

forecast was for 20kn se wind.

We set the boat up with one reef and self tacking heady.

THIS CONFIGURATION IS VERY MANAGEABLE IN 20KN.

We started sailing to windward with the intention of building speed then bearing away to go downwind.

Main traveller was fully down and a crew member was holding the main sheet.

Speed built very quickly as we got hit by a big gust (40 kn) hull started to come up, main was completely dumped but hull kept climbing.

I (helm) turned up to feather the sails but response was slow because all drive was coming from the heady and the bows were pressed.

Boat capsized sideways.

Whole thing took maybe 5 seconds.

  • Mistakes: Bloody B&G wind instruments were not working so no appreciation of building breeze. (Rushour commonly does 20kn on a shy reach so 30kn of wind across the boat seems normal.)
  • We never normally hold the jib sheet. (obviously a mistake)
  • We were rushed with some inexperienced crew and I  never allocated roles.
  • I was complacent. I  never even come close to even flying the hull high on the new Rushour.
  • The gust of wind combined with boat speed gave approx 55 kn over the deck which was obviously enough to capsize a 7 ton boat.
  • The wing mast may have contributed to the capsize.


lucky we were only in 4 m of water and Rushour has a very strong wing mast so we were able to attach ropes to the high hull and tow her around so the bows were pointing into the wind and towed her over.

The bottom hull was flooded and that helped to right the boat.

You need a very big tow boat to pull a big cat over. We used a commercial cat Cat of Nine Tails to pull her up.

We had her upright about 2 to 3 hours after capsize.

I would not want to go through that in the open ocean.

A huge thank you to all the people who rallied around and helped right, retrieve, clean  the boat, and for all the messages. 

It makes you realise how good it is to belong to a strong sailing community.
Nice boat and sorry to hear of the capsize. Thanks for posting... alas it brings out the posers and punters.  Spent lots of time in large offshore cats cruising and now racing and playing in an F27. Curious if you know... given a 7 ton boat, known righting moment and sail area of the jib (alone)... per calculation, how much breeze does it take to put it over?  (Asking because in the F27 it would take more than 60 knots).

 
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RobG

Super Anarchist
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749
I (helm) turned up to feather the sails but response was slow because all drive was coming from the heady and the bows were pressed.



  • We never normally hold the jib sheet. (obviously a mistake)
If one issue was that the jib overpowered the rudder, surely holding the jib sheet is a good thing so it can be released more quickly? Or have I misunderstood the comment?

 
If one issue was that the jib overpowered the rudder, surely holding the jib sheet is a good thing so it can be released more quickly? Or have I misunderstood the comment?
I think you've got it right. It's just not normally done, for several reasons, but a good take away from this incident is that you might want to have someone on it in situations like this. Extraordinary situations call for extraordinary measures, and all that.

 

RobG

Super Anarchist
2,874
749
Thanks, I think I understand the comment now as:

"We weren't holding the jib sheet as we never normally do that. It was, in hindsight, a mistake".

The takeaway being that in conditions where it may be necessary to dump the main, be prepared to follow that by immediately dumping the headsail too.

 

PIL66 - XL2

Super Anarchist
2,734
820
Stralya
I keep reading about how it's not possible to get a loaded sheet off a self tailing winch fast. Bullshit - get hold of the sheet with your thumb up and facing toward the bitter end and pull it straight up above the centre of the winch. Let go fast. If you need telling to stay clear of the sheet tail you're probably on the wrong boat...

Hopefully this will help stop the next pissing his pride and joy into the tide
May I ask were you keep reading this...?   I've not experienced this.... Sure it's slower than holding it and a no no when sailing in breeze at speed but self tailers these days with springs in the jaws don't lock sheets in.  

Anywho, props to Drew for posting it.... 

 

Wess

Super Anarchist
I keep reading about how it's not possible to get a loaded sheet off a self tailing winch fast. Bullshit - get hold of the sheet with your thumb up and facing toward the bitter end and pull it straight up above the centre of the winch. Let go fast. If you need telling to stay clear of the sheet tail you're probably on the wrong boat...

Hopefully this will help stop the next pissing his pride and joy into the tide
I am with @PIL007 - no way I would do that and sounds like a good way to lose fingers and hands.

The other thing that I don't think folks that don't sail multis don't recognize is that the reality is that at times there are going to be sheets cleated in some way shape or form.  Multis don't sail with large crews.  There are no extra hands in the form or rail meat.  Over weight is slow and not safe.  I have crossed oceans in performance cruising cats we owned and have raced a tri we own.  I do everything possible to avoid it but the reality is there are times its going to happen and sheets are going to be cleated.  Our current ride as noted above is an F27.  It can easily be double handed.  At most you sail with 3 peopple.  If main and foresail you need 4 hands; tiller, mainsheet, traveler, jibsheet.  If double slotted - which is often - you need 5 hands because you add a spin sheet or screecher sheet.  Double or triple handed when you need somebody to go low to check for boats, or to grind a winch or check nav or anything, there are multiple sheets cleated.  There simply are not enough hands to hold all sheets.  The challenge is picking the right sheet(s) to cleat and having it set so it can be blown as easily as possible if necessary.  The jib (as the smallest sail and if off the wind turning me towards safety) is the first sheet that gets cleated and un-tended.

Sometimes merde just happens. 

 
Wess 

CBGB knows what he is doing - he has a very very large version of an F27 and races her two handed.....

on our  11.5 cat when fully crewed and racing like a tit we will hold main trav jib / screach / kite sheet when racing two handed would go for trav and headsail - we dont normally double header as we dont have a wide enough slot  

 

Wess

Super Anarchist
Wess 

CBGB knows what he is doing - he has a very very large version of an F27 and races her two handed.....

on our  11.5 cat when fully crewed and racing like a tit we will hold main trav jib / screach / kite sheet when racing two handed would go for trav and headsail - we dont normally double header as we dont have a wide enough slot  
Bruce -

You are a Daz 1150 owner that races, yes?  So I get you are a been there done that kinda guy.  I will keep an open mind on the winch dismount (?) but it sure sounds dicey.

Forgive a brief hijack and feel free to drop a PM if its better, but I am curious how you like the Daz.

Cheers,

Wess

 
Its certainly bigger than an F27!

Our one was built for Simon Baker one of the owners and is a boatbuilders boat - no headlining doors or any unecessary stuff - thats why we renamed her Bare Necessities - 23 knots with shower, carbon table, double beds and twin diesels. We have had her for 4 seasons and done about 12000 miles inc - 2 Fastnets, 1 Round Ireland plus 2 Armen  - if you sailed powered then you need to have hands on sheets - we are happier deep - 130 + degrees then we fly kites 2 handed up to 25 knots - at 20 knots and no reef then we would have hands on trav, main and jib - we and Simon have had her on her ear but have always managed to dump something - normally trav or head sail.  

 

svendson

Member
255
3
Bushsailor, many thanks for the firsthand account, very useful information.

The inevitable responses from the peanut gallery have also ended up providing a very useful place to collect and ignore a lot of clueless idiots in one go.

 




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