Sad for Schancks

PeterHuston

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For those of you in countries other than the US who don't know US baseball history, there was a great centerfielder named Willie Mays, for the San Fran Giants (mostly). One of the greatest players of all time - one of the leading home run hitters. When his career ended, Willie hadn't made the sort of money that is available these days, and he ended up working as a "greeter" in cheap casino's, and ended up with a suspension from the sport as a result. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_mays

Schanck's too has been one of the greats in sailing. DC once called him the smartest man in sailing. Alot of people credit the winged keel as being the key thing that won the Cup for the Aussies in '83, when really it was probably their sails, the credit for which largely goes to Schanck's. He had a great run - up until that hula thing - but so what, he tried, and that one didn't quite work out. Never the less, on balance, up until then and even with the hula included, a remarkable career.

And it is so sad to see Schnack's become nothing but a "greeter" for Ernesto's big gamble on words, phrases and issues that have no real bearing on the outcome of the America's Cup, or the sport. A guy like Schnack's opining on "custom house registry" documents when the whole history of the '88 big boat challenge is sitting right here on the SA server - that is just sadly pathetic.

DC at least had the good sense to know when his time was up in the Cup, and he has gracefully faded away. Bought himself a cool old classic yacht, and raced in the Med. Doing alot of sailing. Seeming to enjoy it.

But Schnack's just can't give up his Cup jones....and the more he is involved in things like chasing "custom house registry", the more his prior stunning accomplishments are diminished. He's become a guy who will do and say anything for the money. He's become no better than a greeter in a cheap casino.

 

hhn92

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Tampa Bay Fla
For those of you in countries other than the US who don't know US baseball history, there was a great centerfielder named Willie Mays, for the San Fran Giants (mostly). One of the greatest players of all time - one of the leading home run hitters. When his career ended, Willie hadn't made the sort of money that is available these days, and he ended up working as a "greeter" in cheap casino's, and ended up with a suspension from the sport as a result. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_mays
Schanck's too has been one of the greats in sailing. DC once called him the smartest man in sailing. Alot of people credit the winged keel as being the key thing that won the Cup for the Aussies in '83, when really it was probably their sails, the credit for which largely goes to Schanck's. He had a great run - up until that hula thing - but so what, he tried, and that one didn't quite work out. Never the less, on balance, up until then and even with the hula included, a remarkable career.

And it is so sad to see Schnack's become nothing but a "greeter" for Ernesto's big gamble on words, phrases and issues that have no real bearing on the outcome of the America's Cup, or the sport. A guy like Schnack's opining on "custom house registry" documents when the whole history of the '88 big boat challenge is sitting right here on the SA server - that is just sadly pathetic.

DC at least had the good sense to know when his time was up in the Cup, and he has gracefully faded away. Bought himself a cool old classic yacht, and raced in the Med. Doing alot of sailing. Seeming to enjoy it.

But Schnack's just can't give up his Cup jones....and the more he is involved in things like chasing "custom house registry", the more his prior stunning accomplishments are diminished. He's become a guy who will do and say anything for the money. He's become no better than a greeter in a cheap casino.

Add the great Joe Louis to the list with Willie.

 

White Lightnin'

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While he may be stuck in a cheap casino right now, it would be foolish to write him off. For that matter insinuating he is over and done with is premature at best and rude at worst.

The man is a legend for a reason and unfortunately has himself stuck in a bad situation

WL

 

NAMT

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While he may be stuck in a cheap casino right now, it would be foolish to write him off. For that matter insinuating he is over and done with is premature at best and rude at worst.
The man is a legend for a reason and unfortunately has himself stuck in a bad situation

WL

"Why do people, who hang around with people who have fleas, catch fleas?" I can't remember the source.

I also do not think Schnack's AC days are over. I also find it hard to blame him for heading to Europe after he was so unceremoniously dumped from the TNZ camp.

Perhaps this sad role for TS is one more example of the fall out from the original 'buy a team' gambit. It is what occurs when just a little rot is allowed to persist in the system.

If people had not started reaching for their cheque books to buy themselves some instant fame we might still be able to see the DoG as a beacon for gentleman sailors.

It would not surprise me to see BB & TS leaving the Alinghi terminal on the same bus soon.

 
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PeterHuston

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While he may be stuck in a cheap casino right now, it would be foolish to write him off. For that matter insinuating he is over and done with is premature at best and rude at worst.
The man is a legend for a reason and unfortunately has himself stuck in a bad situation

WL
Sorry Commodore...but a legend like Schnack's doesn't have himself stuck in a bad situation - he's as responsible for anyone within Asslinghi for what is going on right now. Do you think he's there to make jokes about barges and now talk about custom house registry? Nonsense. He's one of the prime architects of all this bullshit. He was winning the America's Cup when Ernesto was in short pants.

Where exactly after this is he going to go work in Cup circles? Let's see, the club he won the cup for - RNZYS - is currently suing the club he works for - SNG. I'm sure there are alot of Schnack loyalists at RNZYS, but really, does anyone think he's going back there any time soon?

GGYC - would they hire him? Maybe......but if they did it would probably be to just keep him off the streets.

And while everyone is saying they want a "real" Cup as soon as possible.....yeah, right.....like how many teams are actually going to be able to tool up, and be competitive in any boat other than a V.5? Schnack's for sure would make a difference - to a team with the money to at least be credible. Who is going to really be there in '10, or even '11? Cayard, probably. Pajot, presume so, Vincenzo, perhaps. Keith Mills? Is he capable of keeping it together? Moronian's buddy Sarno? No way. Germany? Do they even exist now? China....

If anyone is being rude here it is Schnacks. Rude to the entire Cup community. He's one of the guys who is helping Ernesto pull all this legal bullshit which is keeping the Cup is a state of suspension. So if you want to call me rude for suggesting his time is past - fine, I'll accept that. So probably you are correct - Schnack's time isn't past - he is clearly in the present - it's just that he is largely responsible for keeping alot of his mates in the past right now. Do you have an idea how many unemployed Kiwi's there are because of the likes of Schnack's and Butterworth? Not that I think the America's Cup should have a full employment act for anyone - but really - what on earth is sensible about any of this utter crap that comes out of the mouths of the Asslinghi team? How does Schnack's doing and saying what he does help the Cup, or the sport? It doesn't.

Then just consider yourself as one of the fence sitters here, one of the people who takes an issue du jour and goes with it which ever way the wind blows at that moment.

If you are a wolf in sheeps clothing that likes to see the Cup twist in the wind, see the damage it does to the sport, then fine, defend Schnack's all you want. And by extension you will be defending Ernesto and his silly little game.

I suggest you consider your comments given the event you are hosting this week.

 

Hastings

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But Schnack's just can't give up his Cup jones....and the more he is involved in things like chasing "custom house registry", the more his prior stunning accomplishments are diminished. He's become a guy who will do and say anything for the money. He's become no better than a greeter in a cheap casino.
I hear you ! But it is not money that motivates Schnack. Alter Luna Rossa folded Tom was unemployed and did not know whether he would be watching the next Cup on T.V. Or remain involved.

His old mate Simmer called and said "we need you. "

He is an asset to any team that grabs him.

 

Hastings

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Schnack's time isn't past - he is clearly in the present - it's just that he is largely responsible for keeping alot of his mates in the past right now. Do you have an idea how many unemployed Kiwi's there are because of the likes of Schnack's and Butterworth? Not that I think the America's Cup should have a full employment act for anyone - but really - what on earth is sensible about any of this utter crap that comes out of the mouths of the Asslinghi team? How does Schnack's doing and saying what he does help the Cup, or the sport? It doesn't.
Peter ... careful ... Butterworth is one of the original "Swiss-six" traitors. He left his team.

In Schnack's case, his team left him.

There was not room for Tom and Grant in TNZ. And the parting was not nice.

So, Schnack became a free agent.

There is a big difference between him and Friar Tuck.

 

winchfodder

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If you are a wolf in sheeps clothing that likes to see the Cup twist in the wind, see the damage it does to the sport, then fine, defend Schnack's all you want.

Exactly. Schnacks surely does not need the money (doesn't he have shares in North NZ and the rest). This issue is 'Ok work for Alinghi, but use your experience to advise the boss what is right and wrong and do not come out talking about barges (Rolf), or the Deed is not valid anyway (Hamish), or multihulls are fun (Brad).'

 

Indio

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GGYC - would they hire him? Maybe......but if they did it would probably be to just keep him off the streets.
I believe that when BMWO gets the AC away from Alinghi-SNG, Schnacks will be head-hunted by BMWO and he will join them.....and so he should. And it won't be to bottom-draw him. And what a formidable team they would be for AC34, in whatever boats!!

Schnacks is a gentleman first and foremost, and is very loyal. He had every opportunity to share what he knew about the TNZ developments with Luna Rossa, but he honoured his NDA obligations to his previous team. Whatever he's saying in his role in Alinghi is perfectly acceptable, to people who know Tom.

When books are written about the AC in the late 20th-early 21st century, Scnack's name will be right alongside Dennis Connors, Bond, Fay, and of course Coutts...to name a few.

 

Indio

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Schnack is a legend.
Not sure why you would mention rotten to the core Fay in the same breath as the others.
Like him or loathe him, we can't deny that Michael Fay was instrumental in our (New Zealand's) America's Cup heritage. It's in the history books....

 

PeterHuston

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Here's a quote from Schnack's that I just pulled off of Moronian's Asslinghi press release service.

..........................................................

Tom Schnackenberg

I’ve been in the America’s Cup for quite a few years, first as a sail designer and then I got a chance to navigate and, this time round, I am rapidly becoming half a lawyer.

For most of my working life I was, basically, trying to work my way around rules that were making my life difficult and then, recently, I found myself working with the guys who were trying to write the rules for the AC 90 class. There were people from all the syndicates, basically, sitting round a table trying to do the same thing and write a rule that wouldn’t get tripped up by radical design. It was quite fun watching them helping to try and make their own lives more constrained.

Since we started thinking about the multihull, I realised there wouldn’t be much opportunity for me, because I know nothing about multihulls. I’ve sailed once on an A class catamaran and a couple of times on Hobies and that’s it, but as well as being in new territory for the boat we are for the rules of the actual event and it is quite obvious that we have to organise this event. So, I’ve been working on being a sort of liaison between the design team and the legal team and I’ve started to think about the rules that might govern this event that’s coming up. It’s quite fun to have a brief that doesn’t require me to come up with a certain amount of work every day, like all the others have to do.

.......................................................

Gee, Schnack's even admits to being half a lawyer. So I guess that means his evil twin side has finally surfaced. Imagine that tug of war in meetings, a nuclear scientist and a swiss prick dumbass lawyer arguing about NY trust law and how to fuck over the entire sport of sailing in the process. Perhaps this explains why Ernesto has burned through so many NY lawyers pleading his case, and losing. Everyone on their team is confused as who to believe - the little swiss prick lawyer, or the once brilliant boat designer who now is a part time lawyer.

Did Schnack's just admit he is practicing NY law without a license?

 

WetHog

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He's become a guy who will do and say anything for the money.
I suppose you can lump Russel Coutts and Paul Cayard in this category as well right? Whats wrong with getting paid? And who is to say Schnacks is just a puppet to put out on press day? He was with Luna Rossa last cycle and that team did pretty respectible didn't it? Not sure why your calling out this man. Sure he might be with "the enemy" but I can't fault the man for "getting his".

If I remember reading correctly, Schnacks was drawn to Alinghi based on the prospect of designing a completely new boat (AC-90) and now he has nothing to do because the design of that boat is put on hold. I give the man credit for trying to earn his money at least.

WetHog :ph34r:

 

PeterHuston

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I suppose you can lump Russel Coutts and Paul Cayard in this category as well right? Whats wrong with getting paid? And who is to say Schnacks is just a puppet to put out on press day? He was with Luna Rossa last cycle and that team did pretty respectible didn't it? Not sure why your calling out this man. Sure he might be with "the enemy" but I can't fault the man for "getting his".
If I remember reading correctly, Schnacks was drawn to Alinghi based on the prospect of designing a completely new boat (AC-90) and now he has nothing to do because the design of that boat is put on hold. I give the man credit for trying to earn his money at least.

WetHog :ph34r:

I'm calling him out because he says he is a part time lawyer, and therefore is one of the leading assholes that is keeping this whole thing in court, hanging on total crap arguments like "having" "keel yacht" and now a certificate that has no bearing whatsoever on anything that matters. Who cares why Schnack's went to Asslinghi - all that matters is what he is doing now.

And there is a HUGE difference between what Coutts and Cayard do, and what Schnack's is doing. If you can't see that, I'm not going to bother explaining it to you.

Anyone who even remotely defends one single thing about Asslinghi might was well just start wearing their colors. This parsing of words and little tiny technicalities has gone just too far.

And who on Asslinghi isn't a finger puppet of Ernesto's?

If you think it is OK for a guy like Schnack's to "get his" while he's a fundamental part of the equation that is fucking with the very essence of the Cup, and in the process making the sport look bad not only to outsiders, but those within the sport too, then you are just another guy who will change sides depending on the argument of the moment.

So, basically you are one of those who believe it is more important to be paid for doing anything anyone wants, irrespective of the harm it causes to the greater good of the sport.

Schnacks' hardly needs to "get his" in terms of a payday. He's doing this for more reasons than money. It is just pathetic that a guy with his history in the game is now on the side of working for a guy like Ernesto, and doing his biding for him. He has diminished decades of brilliant work within and for the sport by not just associating with Ernesto, but doing his bidding for him. I used to have a world of respect for him - now, I pity him.

"Back to Sailing" was a cute ploy by some PR person to deflect attention away from the fact that Ernesto wasn't, and isn't, man enough to build a boat and go race GGYC in '08. Anyone who supports any aspect of Ernesto's position is just as weak has he is.

Here's a question no one has asked for which there has been an answer - where exactly was Ernesto during the "Back to Sailing" session? Why is he sticking everyone else out in front of the media? Because he doesn't have the balls to answer real questions from real reporters? Did Clean really scare him that much? Imagine that, Clean put the richest guy in Switzerland on ice to the media.

And now you think it is just fine that Schnack's is getting his for fronting up for Ernesto. How does it feel to be one of Ernesto's finger puppets?

 

ro!

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Peter ... careful ... Butterworth is one of the original "Swiss-six" traitors. He left his team.
In Schnack's case, his team left him.

There was not room for Tom and Grant in TNZ. And the parting was not nice.

So, Schnack became a free agent.

There is a big difference between him and Friar Tuck.

It's time that you let the blackheart traitor bullshit go - they left to go to a team where they would be listened to and paid the going rate for their skills.

Schnacks and Butterworth are working for the same guy for the same reasons and he's now schilling worse than BB. He's a talented, honourable guy but like the rest of them he's going for the big quid.

You seem to be able to forgive RC now he's working for TNZ's latest billioniare godfather and forget how Schnacks got chucked under the TNZ bus by your sailing god Dalts.

 

WetHog

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I'm calling him out because he says he is a part time lawyer, and therefore is one of the leading assholes that is keeping this whole thing in court, hanging on total crap arguments like "having" "keel yacht" and now a certificate that has no bearing whatsoever on anything that matters. Who cares why Schnack's went to Asslinghi - all that matters is what he is doing now.
And there is a HUGE difference between what Coutts and Cayard do, and what Schnack's is doing. If you can't see that, I'm not going to bother explaining it to you.

Anyone who even remotely defends one single thing about Asslinghi might was well just start wearing their colors. This parsing of words and little tiny technicalities has gone just too far.

And who on Asslinghi isn't a finger puppet of Ernesto's?

If you think it is OK for a guy like Schnack's to "get his" while he's a fundamental part of the equation that is fucking with the very essence of the Cup, and in the process making the sport look bad not only to outsiders, but those within the sport too, then you are just another guy who will change sides depending on the argument of the moment.

So, basically you are one of those who believe it is more important to be paid for doing anything anyone wants, irrespective of the harm it causes to the greater good of the sport.

Schnacks' hardly needs to "get his" in terms of a payday. He's doing this for more reasons than money. It is just pathetic that a guy with his history in the game is now on the side of working for a guy like Ernesto, and doing his biding for him. He has diminished decades of brilliant work within and for the sport by not just associating with Ernesto, but doing his bidding for him. I used to have a world of respect for him - now, I pity him.

"Back to Sailing" was a cute ploy by some PR person to deflect attention away from the fact that Ernesto wasn't, and isn't, man enough to build a boat and go race GGYC in '08. Anyone who supports any aspect of Ernesto's position is just as weak has he is.

Here's a question no one has asked for which there has been an answer - where exactly was Ernesto during the "Back to Sailing" session? Why is he sticking everyone else out in front of the media? Because he doesn't have the balls to answer real questions from real reporters? Did Clean really scare him that much? Imagine that, Clean put the richest guy in Switzerland on ice to the media.

And now you think it is just fine that Schnack's is getting his for fronting up for Ernesto. How does it feel to be one of Ernesto's finger puppets?
Alinghi finger puppet huh? In my hayday I would spend the time to refut all you said about me, but I see what your rant is. Nothing of importance. Schnack is the least of anyone's concern, but I guess you need something to bitch about right?

I was gung-ho for BMWO when this all got going, but I am to the point where both sides are equally to blame for this crap. When the AC gets back on the water I will root for BMWO, but as for now its hard for me to get passionate about legal battles.

So go ahead and drag someone's reputation threw the mud that doesn't deserve it. You are a WINNER!!! :rolleyes:

WetHog :ph34r:

 

Albatros

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ah yes, the character assasination office at work, maybe not paid by BMWO, but a friendly service for a good friend of 80's USYRU days perhaps ?

Alinghi : check

SNG : : check

Bertie : check

Marian : check

BYM : check

Schnack : ongoing

just about anyone not in line with the BMWO Goebbels office : will be done.

pity there is no hypocrisy category in next olympic games, you'd win gold hands down :p

 

Hastings

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Like him or loathe him, we can't deny that Michael Fay was instrumental in our (New Zealand's) America's Cup heritage. It's in the history books....

True ... Fay got it going ... but he is a dodgy character.

Made billions flogging off NZ state assets.

He and Conrad Black are like peas in a pod.

 

Hastings

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he's going for the big quid.
Ro! .. I can assure you it is not the money that animates Schnackenberg ... It is the intellectual challenge and the drama.

After all, the AC is his career. And he wants it to last.

 




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