Sailing to the Nord Stream Pipeline on the Q-T.

Goodvibes

under the southern cross I stand ...
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US military history shows that when American forces are supporting a just cause, we are a very determined force to be reckoned with.

It's the 'just cause' that seems to be the problem. Like WOMD in Iraq?

But don't listen to me, listen to Americans who have been there done that. It's been the same for over one hundred years.



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Smedley D. Butler Smedley D. Butler > Quotes​



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“I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.”
― Smedley D. Butler, War is a Racket
 

Goodvibes

under the southern cross I stand ...
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.....or the russians did it in an attempt to divide the coalition........



And here you have a promise from the POTUS.

WASHINGTON, Feb 7 (Reuters) - U.S. President Joe Biden on Monday warned that if Russia invades Ukraine, there would be no Nord Stream 2, but did not specify how he would go about ensuring the controversial pipeline would not be used.

Speaking at a joint news conference with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, Biden said, "If Russia invades... again, then there will be longer Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it."

When asked how he would do that, he responded, "I promise you we will be able to do it."
 

noaano

Anarchist
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Craig and Harry have a lot of support to enable these deep dives in the Pearse.

You're 100% right, I should have stated that more clearly.

But my secondary point was mainly that even on extreme depths the gear required is not super massive and primary point that 80 meters is not that deep with todays gear.

They use a habitat for decompression for instance. and staged tanks in the cave. None of which is practical for open water.

Habitat and stages could be on a down line, though? But yeah, here they would not be needed.
 
You would be able to put a Bavaria on the transom swim platform...
2746817.jpg
 

noaano

Anarchist
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I firmly believe if it was a state actor, they would use submarines, not surface ships dodging the tight net of coastal radars, survaillance planes and patrol boats.

All relevant parties have plenty of suitable assets available for this.

860x394.jpg


Russian-Navy-Spy-Submarine-BS-64.jpg


Above-USS-Florida-4-scaled.jpg


If done carefully, such an operation would leave little trace.

Maybe even arrange an oil tanker drifting above for cover and masking the noise, or something similar?
 

floater

Super Duper Anarchist
5,463
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I only know about the diving side of it.
What is required that needs multiple divers for multiple dives? Why isn't it as easy as "deliver the package"?
It's just an interesting logistical exercise to see if it is possible from a 50ft yacht. The diving side definately is, but the rest of it might make it unfeasible.
the bombs were not small. "package" pure disinformation/stupidity.

and yes. the yacht perhaps somebody's idea of a joke.
 
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noaano

Anarchist
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the bombs were not small. "package" pure disinformation.

Could you please estimate the size of the bombs based on your background in seismology?

All the public sources state M2.1 explosion to be "few hundred kilograms". Is this the right ballpark, yes or no is sufficient?

That is if not maybe small, then lets say rather moderate size to handle from anything bigger than a dinghy.

Ironically, my dinghy weights more than that, and my wife can easily lift that to and from water by herself - with equipment assist naturally.
 
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noaano

Anarchist
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This is a 5gal / 20L plastic container.

5_gallon_closed_top1.jpg


One explosion is roughly 20 of these.

I just transported 10 of these in my car full of 15/40 and lifted them to my boat without sweating or no one taking any note.

How is this somehow impossible amount to handle?
 
Too bad Abramovich gave this away:

1-107311l-2560x1440.webp
Reminds me of the French Figaro sailor who crashed into a buoy tender during training. He had taken on some water, so they lifted him and his boat onto their aft working deck to make sure he got safely to port.
On one or two days in my sailing life I would have loved to have a shadow boat like that in my personal fleet.
 

Se7en

Super Anarchist
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Melbourne
the bombs were not small. "package" pure disinformation/stupidity.

and yes. the yacht perhaps somebody's idea of a joke.
OK - then how big were they?
I'm just trying to understand.
The numbers that have been bandied around of 500 kilos and slighly negatively boyant seem to mean something about 1/2 a cubic meter in size?

Again, I'm no expert, but I'm quite sure that I could put a 1/2 cubic meter / 500 kilo box (that was slightly negative) whereever you wanted it at 80m and be back on the surface in under 2 hours. Down line to the location, boom to put the package in the water and clip to the downline. slide it down then use a lift bag to get in neutral and move it around. Unless there is a ripping current, it's not hard.
 

DELETED

Anarchist
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Suffice to say: Tech in deployment and chem comp has radically improved since the days of the Ashcans..
The speculation over the Force mag is also to take into account the gas pipes pressure and volume and the distance of the seismographic measuring equipment from the det..
I suggest The figures 500kgs and 2.1RS have been speculated over inorder to cast suspicion on or away from the MANY potential participants. Politics and economics are dirty games.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_charge

iu
 
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noaano

Anarchist
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I suggest The figures 500kgs and 2.1RS have been speculated over inorder to cast suspicion on or away from the MANY potential participants. Politics and economics are dirty games.

Seismograph data is open and public, so it would require complex coverup to skew those numbers.

Magnitude 2.1 just isn't that very powerful, and public data suggest around 500 kg of explosives is the right order of magnitude to cause that.

For comparison, Beirut blast was magnitude 3.3. The scale being logarithmic this represents substantially larger energy event.

There were multiple kilotons of AN present in the storage involved, but most likely the blast was only partial fraction of that. Sheffield University report puts the estimate at around 0.5 kilotons:

_113830662_beirut_panorama_976.png
 

noaano

Anarchist
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Another data point:

The Oklahoma City bombing registered 3.0 magnitude. The bomb was 2300kg of ANFO.

It is difficult to directly compare these events without more data or simulation, as the resultant seismic shock depends a lot on the "impedance" of the blast-earth -interface. In this particular case is safe to assume the blast was shaped and directed inwards and thus in part away from the earth, but the order of magnitude still checks out.
 

noaano

Anarchist
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this is one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever read on this site (although you've got a few other runner-ups I suppose). ps: I've got a background in seismology.

I am still curious on the clarification from you with "background in seismology".

Could you elaborate in detail how this ratio of P-to-S wave amplitude used to differentiate natural earthquakes from human made causes is "the most ridiculous I've ever read"?

Especially the significance of said ratio being >= 1.0 vs between -0.5...0.5?

Please, stage is yours?
 
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