Sailors Powerboat

House Salad

Anarchist
931
5
WLIS
The Blue Star 29.9 - Mark Ellis design, Bruckmann Yachts build. Twin Yanmar 250 HP diesels. Fabulous family cruiser.

Salad Days Menemsha1.jpg

 

Zonker

Super Anarchist
8,904
4,822
Canada
I was in on the design of a 45 knot, 62 fast cruising powerboat. Detroit Diesel 16V-92TA's. 1450 HP x 2. They IDLED at ~62 GPH. 

Each.

 

Rasputin22

Rasputin22
13,274
2,930
Zonk,

     We built an aluminum 65' Deep V Cigarette in New Orleans when Halter Marine owned Cigarette. It had a pair of those Detroits and the interior was left out so we could try and break the diesel speed record (at that time). We inherited Mike Peters when we got Cigarette from Aronow and he knew a thing or two about fast powerboats. And then we all learned a thing or two more on that project. Boat ran really fast stripped but when we added drums of water down below to simulate the finished interior the speed fell way off. Lots of prop combinations were tried and those 92TA's from Stewart & Stevenson had a bad habit of eating turbos. Got to be a pretty expensive proposition and I don't think the interior ever got finished off. Company stockholders forced Halter to sell off the Cigarette Division and I think that was when Mike Peters hung out his own shingle. I never thought to ask about the fuel consumption...

 

billy backstay

Backstay, never bought a suit, never went to Vegas
The Blue Star 29.9 - Mark Ellis design, Bruckmann Yachts build. Twin Yanmar 250 HP diesels. Fabulous family cruiser.

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I had forgotten that one, but I love Marks designs.  The orginal Northeast 37 I think it was, had an unconventional look, that I had a hard time getting used to, but by the time it was refined in the 40! I was sold, a true motorsailer, that did both jobs equally well.  Local stockbroker had one with a beautiful interior, including  an office, with small fireplace/stove, so he could work from his boat.  Sadly he fell into the water and drowned on New Years Eve, at the marina he was staying at in Charleston, about 5 years ago, and the boat languished and I lost track of it.  I heard recently that Mark had picked up a Northeast for his personal use.  Great guy, he lives nearby, and we see him at the pub from time to time at happy hour.  My Moms former partner at Eastland Yachts, did a lot of the interior design on his Nonsuch line, and probably other boats.  

 

billy backstay

Backstay, never bought a suit, never went to Vegas
hoppy said:
looks to me like it has 3 popup cleats on either side.

A real sailors motor boat is the tender for their sailboat, not the BS posted in this thread ;)
Thanks for pointing that out!

At age 16, I used the believe that real sailors only sailed on wooden gaff rigged Schooners.  Timed an each advancing decade, has modified my opinions greatly.  There is a place and a time for power boats, for sure!  But the Audi A4 commuter boat is indeed a BS boat, for all but the narrowest of uses, as I pointed out.

 
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crashdog

Anarchist
538
181
well, I kind of like the pretty little Albury 19 runabout that we used to drift around in when I was a kid spending time in Man-o-War.  Was a perfect sailor's tender.  That and the 280 SL with the appropriate hermes-scarfed classic, of course...

 

billy backstay

Backstay, never bought a suit, never went to Vegas
well, I kind of like the pretty little Albury 19 runabout that we used to drift around in when I was a kid spending time in Man-o-War.  Was a perfect sailor's tender.  That and the 280 SL with the appropriate hermes-scarfed classic, of course...


At age 16 or 17, I had a part time job after High School at a local Foreign Car repair shop.  At one point we had two 280SL's for sale there, both with manual trans, one in Robins Egg Blue, the other was Silver.  I got to drive them both on occasion, and that was the best thing I could imagine doing with my clothes on, at the time!!  I was known around the shop as "Billy Boat Division", as I was BN sort of, on the owners PT30, hull #1, called "Jet", so I was sent off to do boat chores quite often.  We ripped off the deck, did a cold-molded flush deck, and taller rig, and we won a shit load of pickle dishes in PHRF.  Doing bow on Jet was nearly as much fun as driving the 280 SL's!

 
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nige

Super Anarchist
So I haven't been on this forum much in the last couple of years but someone mentioned this thread to me and it seems like the right place to share more ideas.

These are a couple of boats we have built and put many thousands of miles on island hopping, commuting, camping in all kinds of weather (the last comment the cat more than the tri - the tri handles it, but get wet in shitty conditions), since 2010.

The tri does about 14mpg at 20kts with a single 20hp outboard. The cat did 7mpg at 20kts with twin 20's.   This summer we changed the 20's on the cat to 40's which we can run at much lower RPM's and get full NMEA data and fuel flow from.    We changed the hull shape but ran out of time to put the foils back in (Which is bad, as the bigger fatter hull design was around getting a lit of lift), so I've put 2500 miles on it since June in the half baked configuration, which currently does about 5mpg at 23kts, 6 at 21 and not so much at 27.   When we get the new foils in in a couple of months we expect something like 25kts at 7-8mpg and a top speed somewhere between 32-35 kts.

These are definitely "sailors" power boats (although that can obviously mean a lot of things) and I love how they go through the water, the long thin bows mean they are incredibly smooth in chop and I rarely slow down for sea state in the cat, it just goes through the waves and carries on.    

So just sharing for fun and food for thought!



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IMG_3968.jpg

 

nige

Super Anarchist
I think for the size of the boat it handles really well with swell and chop.   As with any boat, there is a period and height that just doesn't work very well and you have to slow down a little, but shorter chop it goes straight through and swell obviously you go up and over.   

I have put 2500 miles on the boat since June and unless i'm taking my kids with me, very rarely worry about the forecast.  Its dry, the racing seats hold you in place if it gets bouncy but the boat itself doesn't slam due to the long, narrow bows.  (there is 12ft of bow in front of the driver).   Its designed to go through the waves as much as over them.   I am out in the straights between the San Juan Islands, Port Townsend, Anacortes, Bellingham and Victoria a fair bit and although its not the ocean, with the currents and winds, the water can be pretty brutal.

Its 24ft long, 8.5ft wide, weighs about 1800lbs (estimate) with the twin 40's.  (the tri is about 500lbs including the outboard)  Its all glass/foam construction other than a few carbon areas and carbon foils.   Ive had 12 people on it but that was a very short trip when some orcas were right out of the harbor and that was with the twin 20's.   It still did 17 kts with that payload (That not a designed load and I would never go far like that!).    The bench seats slide down to become a full size bed in the back.    Seats 6 comfortably although with the cover on, the rear two on the bench seats dont have too much head room - so generally kids go at the back.

Here is a video of going full throttle with the 20's in 25kts of breeze in Rosario straight.  The video doesn't do the sea state justice, but it was lumpy.   Downwind which is obviously more comfortable though.

The tri has a more violent latteral movement in rough weather due to the design of the floats being mostly out of the water and I'd slow down for comfort.   It is wet but but very comfortable.

(Note on this video you can see a few drips inside, the windshield needed resealing after 5 years and the attempted vents above didnt seal 100% - both are now fixed ;)  )


 
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nige

Super Anarchist
I am not sure what I would sell this boat for, I am not sure the numbers would work out for anyone ;)

This was built by Turn Point Design (Brandon Davis) in Port Townsend and we have been working on and off the design for the next version which we'd make as a kit.   I have 5 or 6 people interested but we haven't really got our shit together yet.  The plan was to have the mods finished for this boat  (including new foils, new glass windshield, cabin top etc) but money and time have been prioritized elsewhere.   We'll get back on it soon though.

We had a framework for a plan for the kits, different levels from the CNC cut foam panels (designed with all the markers and cut outs to make assembly as easy as possible), manual and license for $10K to pre made/skinned flat panels, CNC cut with pre made molded below waterline hull, transom and corners/beveled sections for closer to $30K.  The latter would be closer to assembly than building etc.    You'd then obviously have hours, outboards (30-50hp), controls, windows etc etc.        This was all rough but the boat would be lighter, slightly fuller and have better load carrying capacity than the current boat.

cheers

Nige

 

ProaSailor

dreaming my life away...
5,929
702
Oregon
I am not sure what I would sell this boat for, I am not sure the numbers would work out for anyone ;)

This was built by Turn Point Design (Brandon Davis) in Port Townsend and we have been working on and off the design for the next version which we'd make as a kit.   I have 5 or 6 people interested but we haven't really got our shit together yet.  The plan was to have the mods finished for this boat  (including new foils, new glass windshield, cabin top etc) but money and time have been prioritized elsewhere.   We'll get back on it soon though.

We had a framework for a plan for the kits, different levels from the CNC cut foam panels (designed with all the markers and cut outs to make assembly as easy as possible), manual and license for $10K to pre made/skinned flat panels, CNC cut with pre made molded below waterline hull, transom and corners/beveled sections for closer to $30K.  The latter would be closer to assembly than building etc.    You'd then obviously have hours, outboards (30-50hp), controls, windows etc etc.        This was all rough but the boat would be lighter, slightly fuller and have better load carrying capacity than the current boat.

cheers

Nige
Both boats look amazing.  Way more appropriate for a sailor's mentality than the obscene gas guzzler's that have been mentioned in this thread.

Why not build and sell finished boats?  There are far more potential buyers than the relatively few capable of doing the work themselves and there certainly is enough talent in Port Townsend for a build team to assemble and finish them.  I have no idea what a fair market price would be for a boat like this (guesses anyone?) but am curious?  Pick a number and work backwards from there to determine feasibility.  Or do boat builders share the belief I heard thirty years ago from a friend on Martha's Vineyard, that only those who build their own boats are worthy of being considered true sailors and deserve them, while those who merely own boats are viewed with contempt?

 

nige

Super Anarchist
Both boats look amazing.  Way more appropriate for a sailor's mentality than the obscene gas guzzler's that have been mentioned in this thread.

Why not build and sell finished boats?  There are far more potential buyers than the relatively few capable of doing the work themselves and there certainly is enough talent in Port Townsend for a build team to assemble and finish them.  I have no idea what a fair market price would be for a boat like this (guesses anyone?) but am curious?  Pick a number and work backwards from there to determine feasibility.  Or do boat builders share the belief I heard thirty years ago from a friend on Martha's Vineyard, that only those who build their own boats are worthy of being considered true sailors and deserve them, while those who merely own boats are viewed with contempt?
Oh, no, there is no snobbery here ;)               To have someone build one to a high standard, its unlikely there would be too much change from $100k, but its possible that number could come down the parts ever got to a semi production level.

We have talked about finished boats a bunch but its just not the core business of Turn Point Design.   They are focused on design, tooling and production of parts.  Efficiently producing finished boats is a different setup and different work.  We/they have built a number of boats (these two power boats, Felix the R2AK cat, loads of paddle boards, Scamps,  the new "Skate"  - ) but efficient production of finished boats isn't something they are setup to do.


 We figured once we have the kit plans nailed down, it would be better/more efficient to find a local ish builder who could setup to produce finished boats from the kit, this way utilizing the skills and parts production of Turn Point Design and the boat production skills of a partner.    

Either way though, that discussion is premature and up in the air.      If anyone is truly interested in one of these boats, please get in touch with me, we have just been talking in the last week about keeping the plans moving forward and I have a small list of very interested people I need to send an update too....

cheers

Nige

 

fastyacht

Super Anarchist
12,844
2,546
I was in on the design of a 45 knot, 62 fast cruising powerboat. Detroit Diesel 16V-92TA's. 1450 HP x 2. They IDLED at ~62 GPH. 

Each.
And that's why we don't see DD 2-strokes any longer.

BTW at that fuel consumption you have over 1000 bhp...something funny going on there.

 
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