Sailors you'd like to punch in the nose
- Thread starter Dawg
- Start date
Being a pro sailor is cool? According to who? And profitable? If you don't have health insurance and you sail in really high profile regattas, can you really say it's profitable?
The guy puts a capital A in asshole.
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Looking at some of the other posts: Yes, the administrator or whatever he/she is at US Sailing is in the wrong, your US Sailing system ougfht to be robust enough to wean out cheats like I believe Dee is, certainly in this case.
I remember flying across the pond to the US to race in Miami or Key West one year. Dee was racing on the Pegasus program at the time.
In the Conch Republic after racing one day it was discussed that apparently Dee's attitude to his employer during racing had been more than derrogatory and so Mr K had asked him to leave the deck and go below. Of course Dee didn't believe it at all, not realising he had stepped WAY over the line with his chat...Mr K apparently remained very calm and polite but very insistent that Dee would take no further part in that race.
I heard that our un-disabled athlete eventually complied with his employer's request but still couldn't accept that he had done anything wrong.
From this story I guess that you could say that people with this 'less progressive' attitude to their position as a professional sailor taints the opportunities for many good pro's.
I have been following this story since SA alerted us all to it. I sincerely hope this guy does NOT get anywhere near Rio, unless it's in a cinema watching the matinee of that fantastic animated movie wiih a bucket of pocorn by his side (that he might possibly choke on)....
I remember flying across the pond to the US to race in Miami or Key West one year. Dee was racing on the Pegasus program at the time.
In the Conch Republic after racing one day it was discussed that apparently Dee's attitude to his employer during racing had been more than derrogatory and so Mr K had asked him to leave the deck and go below. Of course Dee didn't believe it at all, not realising he had stepped WAY over the line with his chat...Mr K apparently remained very calm and polite but very insistent that Dee would take no further part in that race.
I heard that our un-disabled athlete eventually complied with his employer's request but still couldn't accept that he had done anything wrong.
From this story I guess that you could say that people with this 'less progressive' attitude to their position as a professional sailor taints the opportunities for many good pro's.
I have been following this story since SA alerted us all to it. I sincerely hope this guy does NOT get anywhere near Rio, unless it's in a cinema watching the matinee of that fantastic animated movie wiih a bucket of pocorn by his side (that he might possibly choke on)....
You need to stop bringing Helena Lucas into this. She is clearly disabled due to her hand not being a normal human hand and having met the girl like her as a person. I am not a doctor nor an expert on her condition but she meets the criteria and you should stop haranguing her. Just because she has pushed yerself through youth sailing to sail some pretty physical boats through her childhood does not mean that she should be cut off from the paralympics. Talk about fucking someone for trying. Sure she could sail a 49erfx but should would be at a significant advantage to a person with two hands. Feel free to stick it to your man Dee with a stiff neck or whatever his problem is.
As a wider issue the 2.4m is a boat with pretty low physical demands so I would be pretty confident even with some pretty significant disability I would stand a fair chance of beating stiff neck man. Personally Dee is taking a pretty risky approach as if he gets beat which I think he will then it is going to be pretty embarrassing. I have not looked in depth at his results to date but is he actually even a medal contender based on his grade 1 event results to date?
As a wider issue the 2.4m is a boat with pretty low physical demands so I would be pretty confident even with some pretty significant disability I would stand a fair chance of beating stiff neck man. Personally Dee is taking a pretty risky approach as if he gets beat which I think he will then it is going to be pretty embarrassing. I have not looked in depth at his results to date but is he actually even a medal contender based on his grade 1 event results to date?
Wheelchair basketball has ways to deal with that sandbagging because it is hard to play a team sport on your own.. Its been half a lifetime since I had any involvement, but I doubt things have changed much...
Every player on the team is allocated a number of points based on the their physical ability. The team you can field has a capped number of points. You have someone on your team who stubbed their toe. They get allocated 4.5 points. Can make it pretty hard to stay below a total of 14 points for the whole team. One person with a missing patella gets balanced out by one person who is missing a leg.
The Paralympics have differing grades of impairment, and it has always been an area of controversy.
You submit to medical tests and your level of impairment is graded. This applies to mental and physical impairment.
If your level of impairment is allowed to compete in the games in your chosen sport, you can qualify for a place. Which is why you see in Athletics, for example, Mens 100 M T11, T55 etc. The T number indicates the level of impairment of the competitors.
There was a huge amount of controversy around this a few years ago, and the paralympic movement had to really tighten up on the assessment and confirmation that someone was genuinely impaired.
Being an Arsehat isn't one of the criteria, so whatever injury this chap had, must mean he is genuinely impaired enough to qualify, or he would be disqualified by the event rules.
Wanderer
You submit to medical tests and your level of impairment is graded. This applies to mental and physical impairment.
If your level of impairment is allowed to compete in the games in your chosen sport, you can qualify for a place. Which is why you see in Athletics, for example, Mens 100 M T11, T55 etc. The T number indicates the level of impairment of the competitors.
There was a huge amount of controversy around this a few years ago, and the paralympic movement had to really tighten up on the assessment and confirmation that someone was genuinely impaired.
Being an Arsehat isn't one of the criteria, so whatever injury this chap had, must mean he is genuinely impaired enough to qualify, or he would be disqualified by the event rules.
Wanderer
GER308
Member
For a disabled sailor in a wheel chair wouldn't it be easier to punch him in the nuts?
bigfoots dick
Member
- 273
- 0
- Banned
- #49
his cell: 1 443 955 8463Here ya go...
http://www.deesail.com/
Email him, or call him directly.
Email address and cell phone number are right there at the bottom of the page.
***R.T.***
stealingisacrime
Member
I AM DEE-SGUSTED.
THE INTENTION OF PARALYMPIC EVENTS IS NOT AS MUCH ABOUT HOW YOU CAN MEDAL FOR YOUR COUNTRY AS MUCH AS IT IS ABOUT PROVING TO YOURSELF AND TO OTHERS THAT YOUR DISABILITY DOES NOT DEFINE YOU. PARTICIPATING IS A VICTORY AND A LIFE CHANGING EVENT FOR MANY PARTICIPANTS, REGARDLESS OF HOW THEY PERFORM IN INTERNATIONAL COMPETITION.
THE INTENTION OF PARALYMPIC EVENTS IS NOT AS MUCH ABOUT HOW YOU CAN MEDAL FOR YOUR COUNTRY AS MUCH AS IT IS ABOUT PROVING TO YOURSELF AND TO OTHERS THAT YOUR DISABILITY DOES NOT DEFINE YOU. PARTICIPATING IS A VICTORY AND A LIFE CHANGING EVENT FOR MANY PARTICIPANTS, REGARDLESS OF HOW THEY PERFORM IN INTERNATIONAL COMPETITION.
The Paralympic classification system has always been a challenge. I spent a bunch of time coaching Paralympic teams. For those that don't know, to get classified, you go through an exam, both in the medical sense and on a boat. A quadriplegic with some arm function is a 1. Someone who has lost a single foot is a 7. Now, when it comes to testing, my understanding is that your ability to move around in the boat has a large affect on the scoring. For instance, it wouldn't surprise me for one second for someone to be rated a 7 (slip into qualifying) because they move slowly across a boat. In the Sonar class, you can have a crew with a total ability of 14. To sail a 2.4, you can be any number in the system.
In the Sonar class, there are a couple of drivers with one arm. Because the middle person generally trims the mainsail, the one-arm driver is controversial because their impairment doesn't hurt their performance.
In the 2.4 meter, there will naturally be a range of abilities. Aside from having to steer by hand, someone who is paralyzed pretty low in their body isn't at nearly the disadvantage of someone with one arm when it comes to sailing the boat.
Now, a lot of you are screaming that this is immoral. While I may agree with you, the US Team is tasked with doing everything they can to bring home a medal. If Dee fits because his mobility is limited when tacking in a Sonar, but not very limited in a 2.4 Meter, then that is how the game is played. Clearly, other countries have controversial athletes on their teams. Those athletes win. It is unreasonable to ask the US program not to do something that is allowed within the rules.
It has been mentioned that this may have been a motivator for removing Paralympic Sailing from the games. Whether that is true or not, clearly there are issues that aren't easy to solve. Most importantly, classification is subjective and inconsistent by nature.
In the Sonar class, there are a couple of drivers with one arm. Because the middle person generally trims the mainsail, the one-arm driver is controversial because their impairment doesn't hurt their performance.
In the 2.4 meter, there will naturally be a range of abilities. Aside from having to steer by hand, someone who is paralyzed pretty low in their body isn't at nearly the disadvantage of someone with one arm when it comes to sailing the boat.
Now, a lot of you are screaming that this is immoral. While I may agree with you, the US Team is tasked with doing everything they can to bring home a medal. If Dee fits because his mobility is limited when tacking in a Sonar, but not very limited in a 2.4 Meter, then that is how the game is played. Clearly, other countries have controversial athletes on their teams. Those athletes win. It is unreasonable to ask the US program not to do something that is allowed within the rules.
It has been mentioned that this may have been a motivator for removing Paralympic Sailing from the games. Whether that is true or not, clearly there are issues that aren't easy to solve. Most importantly, classification is subjective and inconsistent by nature.
bigfoots dick
Member
- 273
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- Banned
- #53
I think we should start a campaign to ban him.
Rude Dog
Member
I watched/listened to Smith's interview. Don't know the guy, and I "never believe what I hear, and only half of what I see." But I'm pretty good at judging people based on body language. This guy KNOWS he should not be doing what he's doing. Why do I say that? Watch his face as he talks. Note how much he blinks his eyes! Whenever someone blinks their eyes at a rapid, abnormal rate while they're talking, they generally are either trying to bullshit their way out of something, cover up something, or in general, are being deceptive and/or insincere. So very obvious in this case.
Icedtea
Super Anarchist
I cannot believe the guy actually uttered the words 'but I'm not disabled'.
Whether he knows it or not, he should have had the sense not to say them on camera.
Cannot believe it was not edited out either
Whether he knows it or not, he should have had the sense not to say them on camera.
Cannot believe it was not edited out either
Gone Drinking
Super Anarchist
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Regardless what you think - if the rules allow him why wouldn't he sail. He didn't make the rules he is just playing by them. If not him then someone just like him with compete.
He is not the only one doing this. Take a look some of the others that are being allowed to sail.
He is not the only one doing this. Take a look some of the others that are being allowed to sail.
sailman
Super Anarchist
Gone,
That is a true statement....but there are moral lines. To me, and it would appear the same for a majority of sailors chiming in here, he jumped right over it.
Will Museler
That is a true statement....but there are moral lines. To me, and it would appear the same for a majority of sailors chiming in here, he jumped right over it.
Will Museler
Gone Drinking
Super Anarchist
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I don't necessarily agree with it but if the rules allow it, why shouldn't he do it. Otherwise someone else will. Hate the rules, don't hate the players.
alteredst88
Super Anarchist
Might be a short lived experiment. He's currently three points behind teammate Charlie Rosenfield going into the second and final qualifier.
OK I am probably going to regret even writing anything about this but can't stand all the uninformed douchery that most people write on this forum anymore.
Is Dee as huge asshole absolutely, and can he be a complete dickhead 100%. Has the guy also had more back surgeries and been told he was on his deathbed (on more than one occasion) more than anyone should ever have to go through yup that too. So if you think that his personality alone should keep him from being considered a member of the Para team so be it.
But if you think having pretty much most of your spine either wrapped in a cage (oh thats right they went in a took that out once they found out it was deteriorating his spine even more than before)and rods installed (two different occasions) throughout most of your back to try and stabilize it enough so it doesn't just shear away and break would be a pretty big handicap to a persons mobility then maybe just maybe he could qualify.
I am no expert in the field or even pretend to understand what qualifies a person to be considered for a spot on any para team but I also doubt that many of the people that constantly beat this broken drum do either
Is Dee as huge asshole absolutely, and can he be a complete dickhead 100%. Has the guy also had more back surgeries and been told he was on his deathbed (on more than one occasion) more than anyone should ever have to go through yup that too. So if you think that his personality alone should keep him from being considered a member of the Para team so be it.
But if you think having pretty much most of your spine either wrapped in a cage (oh thats right they went in a took that out once they found out it was deteriorating his spine even more than before)and rods installed (two different occasions) throughout most of your back to try and stabilize it enough so it doesn't just shear away and break would be a pretty big handicap to a persons mobility then maybe just maybe he could qualify.
I am no expert in the field or even pretend to understand what qualifies a person to be considered for a spot on any para team but I also doubt that many of the people that constantly beat this broken drum do either
