SailPass around Australia

Spoonie

Anarchist
742
91
Sydney
Breaking this out specifically, I'm curious how your (Australian) club has introduced SailPass.

There is some standard wording kicking around as follows:

"SailPass is a way for people who aren’t already a Member of a sailing club to be eligible to sail in ${CLUB} races in accordance with Rule 46 of the Racing Rules of Sailing 2021 – 2024. SailPass offers a flexible, accessible and affordable introduction to sailing for people new to the sport and, importantly for SailPass holders and boat-owners alike, provides personal injury insurance cover through Australian Sailing.

All ${CLUB} Members, and financial members of other Australian Sailing affiliated Clubs, do not require a SailPass."

To wit, I was always under the impression that if you were an AS member, you didn't need a sailpass to sail at another club. According to rule 46, this would be correct. Except...

...It looks like looks of clubs want all visiting sailors to get a SailPass. Some charge for this privilege, others don't. I note it is all bit of dogs breakfast. Some clubs give you a few free, then charge for the rest. Others charge a flat rate, or a stepped rate. Some put maximum numbers, some don't. Some offer a Sailpass for free, for an entire season.

Enforcement is through the NOR/SI's.

Rather than a thread complaining about sailpass, I'm curious how other clubs around Australia have implemented SailPass?
  • Does your club want every visiting sailor to get a sailpass, or just non-AS members?
  • what were the reasonings around your clubs SailPass policy?
  • were those reasons communicated to members?
  • How do you feel your clubs SailPass policy encourages participation and new members at the club?

For example, my club has chosen not to use SailPass (though will likely need to at some point I think), rather for yacht crews, it provides a very cheap crew membership instead to become a full AS member. Clubs in an area I'm relocating to want all visiting sailors (AS members or not) to buy a sailpass. I have mixed feelings about that as I feel it discourages sailor mobility which is a driver towards increased participation and future memberships. I understand for the smaller clubs though, every dollar of revenue is important and can want a top up to the coffers for anyone sailing there, AS member or not.

but that is just my opinion...

...what is yours?
 

Couta

Super Anarchist
1,130
845
Australia
Invited some mates from other clubs to train at mine in the lead-up to a championships....the guys were approached by a committee member (new to the role and eager to follow protocols) and asked them to sign up to SailPass...I intervened and explained who they were, why they were there and that they were financial members of both other clubs and our class association...following a brief explanation of the innanity of the AS sailpass system...and how if invoked, it would result in an embarrassing situation for the club ( effectively a class blackban), common sense prevailed and we all enjoyed the training races and a few beers purchased at the bar later...a great result all around. The problem is Club administrators feel they must follow AS protocols or risk insurance impacts....when I explained how poor the AS cover really is (a policy of last resort) and how damaging a blanket rule around Sailpass was to a club's reputation..it was effectively dropped. AS refuse to see the damage done by their autocratic and bombastic edicts.
 

DtM

Super Anarchist
3,958
504
Out of the Office
Couta, there are none so blind as those who cannot see.
ArSe have no vision other keeping jobs for the boys (and a few girls) and ripping off the sailors via stupid clubs.
ArSe by name and ArSe by nature.
 

Jethrow

Super Anarchist
When I first heard of the Australian Sailing prescription of Rule 46 or whatever it is I was dead against it, but knew it was going through anyway.

The club I keelboat sail from introduced SailPass, but at least for the time being it's a free service for people to comply with Rule 46. I even raised the matter at the last AGM to get assurances that it will remain a free service. This assurance was given but with no timing as to how long this would be the case.

I have done OTB regattas where I was asked for my AS number, but have not yet been asked to buy a SailPass. That would see me leaving the regatta.

I think that clubs using the SailPass/ Rule 46 thing to charge people who are already members of Australian Sailing affiliated clubs is just such an abomination of their charter to promote sailing, it just makes my blood boil. I can see some token charge for non-club members is vaguely defendable but no way is charging people with an AS number.
 

Spoonie

Anarchist
742
91
Sydney
I think that clubs using the SailPass/ Rule 46 thing to charge people who are already members of Australian Sailing affiliated clubs is just such an abomination of their charter to promote sailing, it just makes my blood boil. I can see some token charge for non-club members is vaguely defendable but no way is charging people with an AS number.

I tend to agree, especially crew. Sure charge a visiting boat a race entry, but IMHO, one of the great things about our sport is the accessibility of the sport to crews who want to go sailing.

At a minimum, so much of the discussion and information on SailPass is about non-AS members. It is then confusion to then use that same system to charge AS members. Sure put in "must be a temporary member, We use the sail pass for all temporary members".

In this case I was asked to buy a sailpass, to which my first response was, no I'm an existing AS member, I don't need a SailPass. It wasn't untill I read the clubs SI's that I realised I was wrong.

Captive market here, all the clubs are doing it. I wonder if it was a tit for tat thing or a conscious choice...
 

LB 15

Cunt
Sail pass has no other purpose than gIving AS a means to claim they have grown participation. It has killed keelboat sailing dead at one well know sailing (and fighting :) ) club. In defending the indefensible AS has used the analogy that you can't participate in Rugby (their fav example)without being a member of a Rugby club. Of course in Rugby one doesn't invite their non rugby playing friends or clients down to the ground on a Wednesday afternoon to pull on a jersey and run on. AS is fighting to try and be relevant. I have spent 25 years running a major portal to the sport. I have introduced more committed people to the recreation of sailing than any club in the country. I can tell you that the 'Recreation' of sailing has grown around 25% during covid. And the vast majority of these people do not have the slightest interest in joining yacht clubs. The best thing that could happen to the sport is for every club to refuse to pay capitation fees until AS drains the swamp and becomes a relevant organization that offers real benefits to be a member. If it wasn't compulsory to be a member via affiliation, AS would close its doors tomorrow. Shaggy, Livia, myself and many others have been on the receiving end of their systematic bulling and support for those that use their position of power to pursue personal vendettas.
 

Spoonie

Anarchist
742
91
Sydney
The thing is, given the way Sail Pass is administered, clubs are making active choices to use SailPass as a revenue stream. While AS have provided the tool, this is in theory, a grass roots choice to wield it in this way.

I actually support the idea of SailPass for non-as members. For example (and a closer analogy) It's what the cycling clubs do in essence; a day licence. But it's one price from club to club and every club wields it in the same way so there is no confusion.
 

HILLY

HILLY
1,144
69
Lake Macquarie
I wonder how sailpass would work in the following scenario. I am a member of A.S. through a regional yacht club, and I compete in the Sydney to Hobart; would I need to apply (and maybe pay) for a sailpass from the C.Y.C. who start the race and R.Y.C.T. who finish the race?
Now in this scenario, I am triple covered for any injuries that happen during the race, am I entitled to triple the payment, if A.S. insurance company refuses to pay more than once, can I come back to A.S. or the individual clubs, for the monies owed?
Interesting situation, and as I sail with a barrister, I am sure that he would rather see any claims lodged against an entity who has forced me to take triple coverage, than use the boats own insurance. Can of worms anyone...
 

The Dark Knight

Super Anarchist
6,749
1,483
Brisvegas
The thing is, given the way Sail Pass is administered, clubs are making active choices to use SailPass as a revenue stream. While AS have provided the tool, this is in theory, a grass roots choice to wield it in this way.

I actually support the idea of SailPass for non-as members. For example (and a closer analogy) It's what the cycling clubs do in essence; a day licence. But it's one price from club to club and every club wields it in the same way so there is no confusion.
Comparing cycling clubs and ASs day passes is just as wrong as the Rugby comparison.

Guest crew don’t bring their boat to the race. The cycling comparison more closely matches OTB racing if a non-member shows up with their opti for a race. They pay the entry fee.

I do see a place for the Sail Pass. It should be for people who want to come down to a club to try sailing. The club then helps these people get on a boat for a race.

I think that is fair.



However how the ASsholes are pushing sail pass is a disgrace.

As an owner, at most clubs you already pay a higher membership fee than sailors. Active race boat owners are doing clubs a service by offering crew positions to sailing members. At my old club, my joining and racing resulted in 4 new members plus 3 juniors.

I supported the club and thus the ASsholes also through my marina fees. My membership fees helps supports the ASsholes because my club pays the mafia protection, also known as Association fees. I paid comprehensive insurance for my boat (including race coverage) which will cover personal injury and thus protects the ASsholes protection racket from making payouts. My insurance company supports the ASsholes through sponsorship.

I support the ASsholes by paying tax, some of which they get as government funding.

Now, if I want to do a WAGS race and take my wife and work colleagues, I have to pay for her and tell my colleagues they need to pay to sail on my boat.

I perhaps wouldn’t mind if there was a perception that the ASsholes were working for the 99% of the people who finance them, but they only care about the 1%, Olympic sailors and the mega rich owners.
 

Fah Kiew Tu

Curmudgeon, First Rank
9,861
3,126
Tasmania, Australia
I can tell you that the 'Recreation' of sailing has grown around 25% during covid. And the vast majority of these people do not have the slightest interest in joining yacht clubs. The best thing that could happen to the sport is for every club to refuse to pay capitation fees until AS drains the swamp and becomes a relevant organization that offers real benefits to be a member.

What I've been saying for years now.

FKT
 

Livia

Super Anarchist
3,990
1,054
Southern Ocean
Paging Livia. Livia to reception please.
Livia has left the sport, now retired and is refitting a 50 foot long range power boat for cold weather cruising.
(FKT it is on the attenuator at Kettering btw.)
Out
B9190A7C-D4ED-46B2-A673-53FA64C5890B.jpeg
 
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Club i'm in s noy affiluated, for the 6-7 members, that go race at other clubs, under AS rules.
the rest f its members and crew, do nt use AS and RRS, butlike the warm fuzziness of giving AS $2000 dd, a year, for nothing directly in return.
they do issue an AS number to all members, and all crew, once financial, and, for those oncer's, or friends that want to come for a couple of Wags/Sags, they are put down as Temporarymember, given an AS number.
there is no SailPass process used, looked into it, but it was a convoluted nightmare, and no-one was prepared to sit at home and do it.

AS PA insurance?
we had a crew recently injured, on a WAGS, AS's insurers flatly rejected the $4000 out of pocket cost, to that crew member.
he's pissed off, and the club committee is waiting for its members to put forward a voting motion, to dissafiluate.

to the 6-7 that do race elsewhere, ( 3-4 times a year) they are happy to join a cheap club, and there are a few around.
the rest, will have their annual membership fee reduced by around $30-35 each member.
none of them are interested in promoting, suggesting or wanting SailPass, and its extea red-tape workload.
 

LB 15

Cunt
The awnser is this. Join the MBTBC as a social member. ($10.00 for three years) Go to the club every thursday night for steak night (300gm Rump- $18.00 choice of Mash and veg or chips and salad +any sauce you want) and for icey cold beers on Friday afternoon on the deck, watching all those odd people with sail boats heading out.. The new clubhouse is sensational.

On the weekends, go camping.
 

Livia

Super Anarchist
3,990
1,054
Southern Ocean
That is my response to AS and sail pass.
Any time for a surfing trip to the West Coast Couta!
Oh yep could buy and run a TP52, but hey I would probably get in protest.
Then some AS fucker would complain to the Legal Services Commission that I am not a fit and proper person to practice law or I get an 18 month ban from the sport for complaining that someone has a really small dick..
Welcome to Qld Sailing.
See what I am saying!
I will spend my after tax dollars elsewhere.
 

Fah Kiew Tu

Curmudgeon, First Rank
9,861
3,126
Tasmania, Australia
Livia has left the sport, now retired and is refitting a 50 foot long range power boat for cold weather cruising.
(FKT it is on the attenuator at Kettering btw.)
Out View attachment 524181

Ah. I'm up in Sydney ATM or I'd drop by & say hi. If you're still about in early August maybe we can catch up for a coffee or lunch at the cafe.

IMO that's the best answer to SA and intransigent clubs - fuck them off & do your own thing.

Mike is hauling out his 65' motorsailer sometime soon in prep for a winter voyage to somewhere warmer.

FKT
 

The Dark Knight

Super Anarchist
6,749
1,483
Brisvegas
The awnser is this. Join the MBTBC as a social member. ($10.00 for three years) Go to the club every thursday night for steak night (300gm Rump- $18.00 choice of Mash and veg or chips and salad +any sauce you want) and for icey cold beers on Friday afternoon on the deck, watching all those odd people with sail boats heading out.. The new clubhouse is sensational.

On the weekends, go camping.
We go schnitzel night sometimes. I had a very nice pizza yesterday.

I’m looking forward to upstairs opening and the daughter is waiting for the kids room to return.
 

Spoonie

Anarchist
742
91
Sydney
Now, if I want to do a WAGS race and take my wife and work colleagues, I have to pay for her and tell my colleagues they need to pay to sail on my boat.

Again, that's the club's choice. Despite what you think of AS, it is the club that has actively made this choice.

If we feel the clubs are making this choice in error, what are the clubs missing to make better decisions on this?

My practical experience is smaller organisations don't understand concepts like customer lifetime value, and go chasing every short term penny despite the longer term value. In this context, I may pay the SailPass fee, or I may not. The opportunity cost there is how much I spend at the bar this week, and the next week, and so on... Future courses they've been turned off, purchase of my own boat, etc.. etc.. because the first day, they got whacked with a SailPass cost. perhaps the clubs have done that maths, but I doubt it....
 
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