SailPass around Australia

The Dark Knight

Super Anarchist
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Brisvegas
Again, that's the club's choice. Despite what you think of AS, it is the club that has actively made this choice.

If we feel the clubs are making this choice in error, what are the clubs missing to make better decisions on this?

My practical experience is smaller organisations don't understand concepts like customer lifetime value, and go chasing every short term penny despite the longer term value. In this context, I may pay the SailPass fee, or I may not. The opportunity cost there is how much I spend at the bar this week, and the next week, and so on... Future courses they've been turned off, purchase of my own boat, etc.. etc.. because the first day, they got whacked with a SailPass cost. perhaps the clubs have done that maths, but I doubt it....
What are you talking about....

Australian Sailing prescription of Rule 46

From 1 January 2021 the Australian Sailing prescription to the rule will require that all crew are members of an affiliated club and registered with Australian Sailing- regardless of the number of races they have competed in.

Sure, clubs could perhaps issue sail passes and register people for free and even wear the increase in the association fees, but why should they have to fuck around with that to get around idiotic rules created by ASsholes?

Why does the national organisation feel the need to create idiotic rules?
 

Spoonie

Anarchist
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Sydney
What I'm talking about is AS said "we've made this rule, here's the means to give everyone effectively free AS membership, you get to decide how much you charge"

Some clubs charged nothing, Some clubs charge something...

...Some clubs went "fsck that, I'm going to charge even AS members to come sail with us..."

the *Clubs* made that choice.

Getting new crew registered via sailpass is redtape. Charging even AS members, via sailpass, because the *Club* has decided to do that is (in my humble opinion) a curious choice for a club to make.

Make no mistake, if you are paying money for a Sailpass (as member or not), it is the Club you are sailing at that has made that choice
 

LCS Carbon

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What I'm talking about is AS said "we've made this rule, here's the means to give everyone effectively free AS membership, you get to decide how much you charge"

Some clubs charged nothing, Some clubs charge something...

...Some clubs went "fsck that, I'm going to charge even AS members to come sail with us..."

the *Clubs* made that choice.

Getting new crew registered via sailpass is redtape. Charging even AS members, via sailpass, because the *Club* has decided to do that is (in my humble opinion) a curious choice for a club to make.

Make no mistake, if you are paying money for a Sailpass (as member or not), it is the Club you are sailing at that has made that choice
On what basis can a "club" enforce a sail pass on someone who is a member of an affiliated club, and member of AS? Surely this would fall over in a protest room?
 

Jethrow

Super Anarchist
I would say it hasn't been tested in the protest room yet, but it can't be far off when someone forgets to put in the right paperwork and gets disqualified from a race and ends up costing a big regatta win?
 

Spoonie

Anarchist
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Sydney
On what basis can a "club" enforce a sail pass on someone who is a member of an affiliated club, and member of AS? Surely this would fall over in a protest room?

They write it into NOR and/or SI's.

"All crew shall be a financial member or temporary financial member of ${CLUB}. Temporary membership is available via the SailPass system. this amends RRS 46"

Job done.

In my scan about the place, I have found several such examples. Some are better worded than others. Some don't mention RRS 46 but potentially don't need to as it is essentially an additional eligbitilty criteria and doesn't really negate 46. As enforceable as any other entry criteria.
 

Spoonie

Anarchist
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Sydney
AS have been pretty explicit that they do not mandate how a club uses the SailPass system, and do not take a cut of the proceeds.
 

mccroc

Anarchist
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Sydney
They write it into NOR and/or SI's.

"All crew shall be a financial member or temporary financial member of ${CLUB}. Temporary membership is available via the SailPass system. this amends RRS 46"

Job done.

In my scan about the place, I have found several such examples. Some are better worded than others. Some don't mention RRS 46 but potentially don't need to as it is essentially an additional eligbitilty criteria and doesn't really negate 46. As enforceable as any other entry criteria.

Can't amend Rule 46 without approval.


Australian Sailing prescribes that, except for international events of a World Sailing class, or an international event held under Appendix C and D, a notice of race or sailing instruction shall not alter any Australian Sailing prescription without prior written approval from Australian Sailing.
 

Spoonie

Anarchist
742
91
Sydney
Can't amend Rule 46 without approval.


Australian Sailing prescribes that, except for international events of a World Sailing class, or an international event held under Appendix C and D, a notice of race or sailing instruction shall not alter any Australian Sailing prescription without prior written approval from Australian Sailing.
You would be hard pressed to prove it in the evidence provisions of a protest room.

At least one Sydney club already has such an amendment. Regardless, as mentioned, you could just do it as an additional entry criteria. In which case RRS 46 need not be amended.
 
To Spoonie, your SailPass question is linked to many issues with regard to the admin of the sport in AUS.

1) Your reference to being “an AS Member” is not valid, but you are not alone, many others have been lulled into this trap of misinformation. Individuals are members of their respective club (or clubs), they are not a member of AS. Your AS Number is a Sailor Registration Number. The Sailor Registration System has been in place since around 2015, it is a fairly straight forward and logical concept but one would be hard pressed to find any information from AS to explain the terminology or how it works, and anyone new to the sport has little to go on to figure it out. In fact it is doubtful that AS staff and the Board understand the concept, as per the documentation they produce such as Annual and Quarterly Reports that refer to “Membership” and “Australian Sailing’s membership numbers”.

2) Re: individual experience of club take-up of SailPass – the clubs I am involved with are not interested in SailPass and the AS prescription to Rule 46 is viewed as a nonsense to be ignored – ie why has AS stuffed around with a racing rule to address a sport admin issue? One of these clubs caters for yachts as well as Off the Beach classes and both clubs have relied on the flexible application of the “3 race rule” for many decades as a means to introduce people to the sport and encourage new members, both clubs are not about to change that approach any time soon. They do insist on sign on/off for skippers and crews for the OTB classes, while the yacht owners are encouraged to sign-up their regular crew as club members (with the option of a yacht-crew membership category where applicable).

3) Rule 46 is a bit of an obscure rule that appears to establish the requirement to have a Person in Charge, a term that can be referenced in the rules or race documentation. The AS prescription to Rule 46 is not necessary. A Club / Organising Authority has always had the option to determine the entry / eligibility requirements for an event under its control, via the NOR or SIs. The AS prescription to Rule 46 seems to have been created as a Trojan Horse to promote SailPass – whenever AS produce any doco (or video) on Rule 46 it will inevitably make reference to the perceived virtues of SailPass accompanied by the fear factor if someone is not covered by the mythical AS endorsed Personal Protection insurance. A lot of time, effort and bullshit has gone into promoting SailPass yet little effort applied to explain the Sailor Registration System – any wonder, if you take the time to do the research, you will come across high-profile sailors or sailors who crew on high-profile boats, who are not registered, not necessarily their fault, perhaps the message has never been adequately delivered.

4) AS use the Sailor Registration System (AS Numbers) to produce the “membership numbers” in their annual / quarterly reports. This is where it gets interesting and just a bit concerning. The following table has been compiled from data presented in these reports from recent years.

Australian Sailing Annual / Qrtly Report "Member" Data
A
B
C
D
E
Rpt YearTotal Club
Members
Active Club
Members
SailPass
Holders
Unpaid / Not
Categorised
2021-22 (Q3)
133,289​
71,388​
5,817​
53,158​
2020-21
122,585​
66,503​
4,839​
53,910​
2019-20
122,202​
70,838​
3,017​
48,606​
2018-19
105,378​
60,796​
1,326​
42,711​


Column B is supposed to indicate how the sport is “growing”. Very dubious, the sport is not growing in anyway like that, if at all.

Column C is a more accurate indication – ie current financial members of clubs (per financial year) who are registered sailors, when referenced by “CHECK MY AS NUMBER”, they will have a status of “Active”.

Column D who knows with SailPass? It caters for temporary situations, sometimes just 1 day; they come and go, hard to understand how that contributes to growing the sport.

Column E, growing annually, the category that keeps on giving (when will it achieve parity with Column C?), but a serious misrepresentation, should never have been a consideration. This category is made up of non-active AS Numbers, such as for people who have re-registered under a new number (sometimes multiple times eg they change clubs or are just ignorant of how the system works) and their old number (or numbers) is still in the system; also people who have left the sport – eg families where the kids + parents have been through the junior program possibly for a number of years and then moved on; people who have given up their involvement in sailing for all sorts of reasons and this may include the fact they have died – yep, the records for dead people in this category are being used to pump-up the numbers! So much for organisational integrity and good governance.

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