Santa Cruz 27 Plans/Lines/Drawings?

Schoonerman

Super Anarchist
3,239
3
San Francisco
We're asking the SA crowd if anyone has drawings/lines/takeoffs of the 27?  Reached out to Bill Lee yesterday and he has nothing. I thought I'd see if anyone here can't point the way?


 
Instructor, racer and Naval Architect Roberto G is helping us redesign the venerable Santa Cruz 27 deck. We (Spinnaker Sailing - SF) have been looking literally for YEARS for a boat that can replace the 27 to teach the ASA 104 Basic Coastal Cruising on. We replaced all of our aging Santana 22's with the Andrew's 21's for the basic level classes but we need to replace the SC 27's as they are pretty difficult to teach docking, etc on as the engine layout is funky and truth be told the cockpit design is pretty dated. We tried some lift keel boats, considered the M24 (too fragile) and some other options that fit the affordability requirement...nada.


 ​


The SC27 is a well built boat, light, fast and a delight to sail and as a bonus, we own 3 of them. Being an ultralight means you can put a much smaller outboard on it and it powers like a tugboat! We're trying to devise electric options for this but nothing is there for commercial use...quite yet.
 
Roberto has come up with a clean modern design that meets our criteria



- Larger Cockpit
- Open Transom for outboard motor operation/ease
- Small Cuddy Cabin. Will still sleep 4 !
 
 


Screenshot from 2020-09-20 07-27-41.png

 

Rain Man

Super Anarchist
6,926
1,884
Wet coast.
If you have three boats, why not just measure everything?  Am I missing something?

The design above looks like the transom is being extended.  Seems like overkill - there are a lot of open transom SC 27's.  An open transom would solve most of your engine handling problems.  I agree that hanging over the stern to operate throttle and gears is non-ideal.

An even simpler and cheaper solution would be to purchase outboards with remote control, and find a small morse control to put on the cockpit sidewalls.  Again, your problems handling the engine around the dock are gone, and you can use the money you save to buy more sails, which SC 27's need a lot of.  Your boats can still compete in the nationals too.

https://www.go2marine.com/single-lever-side-mount-sail-boat-engine-control-ch2100

Actually, thanks for posting this, doing the research has made me realize how easy it would be to convert my SC 27 to remote control:

https://www.sailnet.com/threads/adding-remote-control-to-tohatsu-6hp.171362/

 
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IMR

Anarchist
558
99
SF Bay Area
We're asking the SA crowd if anyone has drawings/lines/takeoffs of the 27?  Reached out to Bill Lee yesterday and he has nothing. I thought I'd see if anyone here can't point the way?


 
Instructor, racer and Naval Architect Roberto G is helping us redesign the venerable Santa Cruz 27 deck. We (Spinnaker Sailing - SF) have been looking literally for YEARS for a boat that can replace the 27 to teach the ASA 104 Basic Coastal Cruising on. We replaced all of our aging Santana 22's with the Andrew's 21's for the basic level classes but we need to replace the SC 27's as they are pretty difficult to teach docking, etc on as the engine layout is funky and truth be told the cockpit design is pretty dated. We tried some lift keel boats, considered the M24 (too fragile) and some other options that fit the affordability requirement...nada.


 ​


The SC27 is a well built boat, light, fast and a delight to sail and as a bonus, we own 3 of them. Being an ultralight means you can put a much smaller outboard on it and it powers like a tugboat! We're trying to devise electric options for this but nothing is there for commercial use...quite yet.
 
Roberto has come up with a clean modern design that meets our criteria



- Larger Cockpit
- Open Transom for outboard motor operation/ease
- Small Cuddy Cabin. Will still sleep 4 !
 
 


View attachment 393786
Looks sweet!!! 

 
The worst thing about SC27 is the cockpit. I always wished mine had a cockpit like in this drawing!

The second worst thing was the access to the outboard.

The third was the lack of a way to get back aboard that does not require the person in the water to be quite strong and flexible.

I don't think it will be necessary to shorten the coachroof nor alter the interior. Just cut away all the existing winch islands aft, and replace with that style cockpit, including the open transom. Will make the interior a lot better too, with sufficient space to get into those pipe berths aft.

That style deck/cockpit will stiffen the boat too.

I would make a deck level thwart to hold the top of the rudder, and to provide necessary stiffness for the aft quarters. The full transom is very important to structure as is. I think it will be easy to step over the thwart to access the outboard, and will give much needed hand hold for brining a person back onboard.

 

apophenia

Anarchist
Another option would be to hire an industrial 3D scanning company to come out and scan all three of your boats. Then you need a strategy to reduce the resulting point cloud down to a 3D model. Then you can compare the boats to see how much variation there is an evaluate whether you can build a single mold for the new deck or if each boat is going to need custom work.

 

mundt

Anarchist
853
321
=
I'm a primative mammal but on my trimaran the outboard controls were very difficult to reach.  So I took a length of pvc tube and linked it to a piece of soft rubber hose then married it all to the throttle handle with a couple stainless hose clamps.  I glued a tennis ball on the end for aesthetics and, voila, a very functional and cheap throttle handle extension.  I used a piece of g-10 and some string to make the shifter easier to reach.  I 'm mostly a sail on and off the dock kind of simian but on those few occasions where a motor is needed the extensions make a huge difference and cost a few pesos and about 1/2 hour of work.  Seems a lot easier than chopping up the boat?

 

casc27

Super Anarchist
2,343
126
The worst thing about SC27 is the cockpit. I always wished mine had a cockpit like in this drawing!

The second worst thing was the access to the outboard.

The third was the lack of a way to get back aboard that does not require the person in the water to be quite strong and flexible.

I don't think it will be necessary to shorten the coachroof nor alter the interior. Just cut away all the existing winch islands aft, and replace with that style cockpit, including the open transom. Will make the interior a lot better too, with sufficient space to get into those pipe berths aft.

That style deck/cockpit will stiffen the boat too.

I would make a deck level thwart to hold the top of the rudder, and to provide necessary stiffness for the aft quarters. The full transom is very important to structure as is. I think it will be easy to step over the thwart to access the outboard, and will give much needed hand hold for brining a person back onboard.
Pretty much agree with you. Although, for singlehanded stuff I find the cockpit ok since I do not worry about hiking when sailing SH'd. Completely agree about not shortening the cabin, just removing the winch islands. I did some measurements once years ago and by widening the cockpit footwell a few inches and bringing the deck level surface to meet it (i.e., eliminate the seats) you would actually increase the q-berth volume nicely. If $$ did not matter I might have done something  like this. And yes to the thwart for the upper rudder post bearing (think Olson 25). 

Looking at the proposed concept I wonder where on that reduced cabin the mast will land as it looks like the coach roof has also been pushed forward some. 

Be fun to see the results if this actually gets done.

 

Rain Man

Super Anarchist
6,926
1,884
Wet coast.
6 hp outboard would be huge on an sc27. Are you planning on wakeboarding behind it? 
Deliveries to distant regattas will go much quicker with the 6.  We'll probably get a 2.5 as well to get from the dock to the start line.  This two-engine configuration seems to be pretty much standard practice with SC 27's around here.  Our longest regatta deliveries are up to 40 miles often in zero wind.

 
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Rain Man

Super Anarchist
6,926
1,884
Wet coast.
40 miles, that’s 40 minutes with a trailer. 
And three or four hours to de-rig and re-rig, rinse salt off the trailer, tune the rig before the first race etc.  We don't have a gin pole yet either, so we need to go somewhere with a mast tower.  But yes, we will be using the trailer to get to some regattas.  The ones we can't use the trailer for (no facilities for launching, or have to put the trailer on a ferry for $$$$) are the ones 40 miles away.  There are also some current passes to get through where we need the speed.

I don't know about you, but I'd rather be on the boat motoring through some of the most beautiful scenery around enjoying a frosty beverage than driving down the highway.  Based on experience you get to sail about 30-40% of the time, too.

 
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sam_crocker

Super Anarchist
1,503
72
PNW
US Sailing might have .off files for the boat.  Contact the offshore office.  I'm not sure they would be willing to give them to you, but it might help to have Bill's permission.  They also might be able to just give you the hull/deck joint offsets.

 

Zonker

Super Anarchist
8,890
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Canada
Point cloud scanning is remarkably cheap these days. We had a guy do a ~50 or 60' hull for a few thousand $.

But do you need the hull shape to design a new deck and cockpit? A few key measurements might be sufficient (beam at several points gives you a deck edge), measure depth of the cockpit and crawl under the cockpit to see what the clearance to the hull is. 

I'd be tempted to just cut off a deck and build a mockup with cheap ply until you were happy with it, but of course starting with some "approximate" concept level drawings as a starting point. Nothing beats a full size deck mockup in determining where the winch goes and that block is in the way etc etc.

 

Mudsailor

Anarchist
888
74
So Cal
Point cloud scanning is remarkably cheap these days. We had a guy do a ~50 or 60' hull for a few thousand $.

But do you need the hull shape to design a new deck and cockpit? A few key measurements might be sufficient (beam at several points gives you a deck edge), measure depth of the cockpit and crawl under the cockpit to see what the clearance to the hull is. 

I'd be tempted to just cut off a deck and build a mockup with cheap ply until you were happy with it, but of course starting with some "approximate" concept level drawings as a starting point. Nothing beats a full size deck mockup in determining where the winch goes and that block is in the way etc etc.
This, had a guy from the oil fields in Kerns Co do some stuff for me 6 years ago, very quick and accurate, but......

I’d be tempted to leave a deck perimeter in place(as much as you can) cut the middle out, build it up with plywood (directly on the hull) until you are happy with everything and then pull the mold off this plywood deck/original deck plug.  Not sure what the hull/deck joint looks like but you could leave that area and scarf the old and new together on the flat part inboard of the gunwhale. (done well with the right tapers should not be much extra finishing) and also the quality of the deck mold is not ‘that’ important (as you only have 3 decks to make) 

 

yoyo

Anarchist
665
254
The Olson 30 class Projects page http://www.olson30.org/projects/ has two interesting approaches, Spar Wars and Scourge with some pictures.  Leave everything up to the back of the cabin house, scarf-tie in new aft deck.  You don't need f-book to view the pictures.

SC27's are great boats but they might be better left "class legal" for resale value.  I have no idea on values or current class demand.

If you move forward modifying the SC27's it sounds like a cool project and please keep us updated on your progress.

 
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