School Shooting

Burning Man

Super Anarchist
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An analogy would be that in the wake of the 9/11 attacks, we went on a Moonshot/Manhatten Project sized effort to attempt to reform the MIddle East and elsewhere and address the root causes of why terrorists hate 'Murica
But you did...and you wonder why the middle east STILL hates America...ycmtsu
I'm well aware of that.  I never said it was a good idea, just that it might take a really long time and that not stopping ragheaded, goat-fucking terrorists from getting on airplanes in the meantime would be kinda dumb.  

 

Burning Man

Super Anarchist
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G'day Jeff,

Sorry I missed your response. 

What I was meaning to say (by the looks I did it quite badly, apologies) is that installing metal detectors in schools is another bandaid on top of the bandaid on top of the bandaid.

Word in your shelllike dear chap...Under the bandaid isn't a wee paper cut. Its a cancerous horrific weeping sore. You pretending its a paper cut is not only incredibly myopic, it's pretty much guaranteed to make it worse until its beyond salvage.

If your want your society to be gun loving, have at it. I like guns too. Yet as a society you have clearly refused to take on the responsibility that guns require. And as a result you can't control the fuckwits. 

The solution as a parent is to look at the root cause, not paper over it with more convenient self serving reactive bullshit. Metal detectors are used for areas where we expect the dregs of society to pass through. Like courts. Prisons. Police watch houses. The sheer fact you lot are tossing around adding metal detectors to schools like you're discussing adding a new desk to the reception tells me a huge amount about what you as a society consider more valuable. 

You (collective you) can't admit it because to admit it means you're a low life cunt, but this says in big shiny bold font that you value your bullshit gun rights obsession more than kids. 

Fucking metal detectors in schools. What a bunch of selfish gutless soft cock fucking arseholes. 

Is that clearer? 
I am in 100% agreement with you on all of the above except for the fact that we have to live in the "Now" and not what we "wish it could be".  I fully agree and have written tomes here on the subject of personal responsibility and the responsibility of society when it comes to stuff like this.  I am talking about guns and lots of other stuff.  I have repeatedly said that the root causes of this gun violence is a lack of personal, family and societal responsibility.  But that applies to many, many many other things as well such as drug use, bullying, teen mental health issues on the rise, general crime, general violence, the breakdown in the nuclear family and close communities, etc, etc, etc.  

But those are all LONG TERM issues that need addressing and will take decades if not generations to solve, IF they are even SOLvable at all in a democratic society.  In the meantime, unless you can find a way to snap your fingers and ALL dangerous weapons vanish into thin air or @jocal505 ever gets off his lazy ass and builds the giant gun magnet that will suck up all guns from houses as you fly over in a helicopter - the stark fact remains that metal detectors, guards, hardened doors, limited access and such for schools is necessary RFN!  They are absolutely bandaids, no argument there whatsoever.  But the ugly fact remains that there are troubled individuals out there intent on causing harm and mayhem and to take as many lives with them as they go our in a blaze of glory....... and unprotected schools are simply too juicy a target for these psycho nutterz to pass up.  

I also wish we were not in this current situation.  The Long Term fix is not to harden schools and call it good.  The long term fix is to address all the societal, mental health and other issues WHILE simultaneously protecting the most vulnerable.  Not doing so would be like saying TSA is the solution to terrorism and stop there and call it good.  Hopefully we are not doing that either. 

 

Burning Man

Super Anarchist
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Back to the desert
ou (collective you) can't admit it because to admit it means you're a low life cunt, but this says in big shiny bold font that you value your bullshit gun rights obsession more than kids. 

Fucking metal detectors in schools. What a bunch of selfish gutless soft cock fucking arseholes. 

Is that clearer? 
I wanted to address this in the previous post but it was getting long winded already.  For one..... because I admitted that that metal detectors are nothing more than a bandaid - does that make me a "low life cunt, bunch of selfish gutless soft cock fucking arseholes"??

Furthermore, I requires pointing out yet again that Gunz in 'Murica are nothing new.  We've been "awash" in gunz since before the nation was even formed.  The sort of violence on the scale that we see it, however, is really a fairly recent thing.  Pretty much was never or rarely a "thing" 30 years ago.  Yet the same exact weapons were available back then as they are now.   The Glock and AR-15 I owned in the 90s are identical to today's models and are probably 99% interchangeable parts.  They still to this day represent the leading edge of firearm technology available to civilians.  So in the last 30-40 years, the guns themselves have not become more deadly.  The ability to buy a gun has actually gotten MORE difficult today compared to then - and yet violence and mass murder is on the rise.  Well it isn't actually, but I digress......

A team of scientists would take a similar problem and attempt to diagnose the root causes of why X is increasing.  So a scientific approach to why violence is UP when the guns themselves haven't changed and the access to them has gotten harder and come up with ways to address those root causes.  And they would start by asking the obvious question:  What has changed??

What's changed is too many to list here.  But some obvious ones are:

  1. The internet / social media that enables bullying, fear, wider spread disinformation and of gory details of other events that some sickos want to copy cat when they might not have even ever heard of it before the interwebs.
  2. Social media is more and more being proved to contribute significantly to children and young adult's deterioration of their mental health.
  3. Increased violence in all media - TV, Movies, Games, print, you name it.  
  4. Lack of parental supervision/interaction to see where their kid's heads are at and what they are doing and who are they associating with.  Yes that's always been an issues, but it was the exception and not the norm.
  5. Fracturing of community as more and more people become nomadic and always chase that new job or newer, bigger house or whatever.  No one stays long enough anymore to get to know their neighbors.  I recall that if I was doing stupid stuff, my parents would hear about it because the neighbors would rat me out in a heartbeat.  And it was expected.  Now, parents would just tell the neighbor trying to do some good to just shut their fucking mouths and mind your own business.  
  6. Divorce becoming the common condition rather than the outlier and the split of the family.  Assuming they were ever even married in the first place.
  7. And on and on.  Entire books could be (and have been) written on this subject

So what's different?  The gunz aren't different.  Access to them was FAR easier BITD, they haven't become more lethal.  What IS different is society itself.  Look at that before you enact another prohibition that will have as much impact as the previous two had.  Which is to say almost zero.  

 

Mrleft8

Super Anarchist
27,401
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Suwanee River
I'm well aware of that.  I never said it was a good idea, just that it might take a really long time and that not stopping ragheaded, goat-fucking terrorists from getting on airplanes in the meantime would be kinda dumb.  
You like to fly, eh? Flying is good eh? Don't worry! I get you more flying!

 

Pertinacious Tom

Importunate Member
62,879
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Punta Gorda FL
23 hours ago, Lochnerian Tom said:
Yes, the idea that the 2nd amendment doesn't apply to anything invented since the 18th century is the TeamD/gungrabby position. I sometimes adopt it to make fun.

Similarly, the current controversy being decided by the Supreme Court is whether we had indoor militias. That's the TeamD/gungrabby view. I think militias operated outdoors and I do sometimes adopt their position to mock it.

How about you?

Do you think the second amendment applies to anything more modern than a musket?

Do you think it applies outdoors?
Expand  
Does it apply in schools? airports or courthouses, police stations? 
Those are all indoor locations and don't have a lot to do with the questions of whether the second amendment applies to post-18th century tech or whether it applies outdoors. They're also specifically mentioned in Heller, but only a reader could know that.

 

Raz'r

Super Anarchist
63,100
5,838
De Nile
Those are all indoor locations and don't have a lot to do with the questions of whether the second amendment applies to post-18th century tech or whether it applies outdoors. They're also specifically mentioned in Heller, but only a reader could know that.
Thanks for not answering. Typical. 

 

Liquid

NFLTG
4,835
891
Over there
weapons of war like this one

Yeah, not!!

That's a S&W 22 target pistol.

Not the stopping power or round capacity anybody would want on the battlefield!!!!

Look up the 1911 pistol, 'cause that's a battlefield pistol!!! Well, that is if 2 world wars are any kind of relevant proving grounds....

 

Bus Driver

Bacon Quality Control Specialist
Yeah, not!!

That's a S&W 22 target pistol.

Not the stopping power or round capacity anybody would want on the battlefield!!!!

Look up the 1911 pistol, 'cause that's a battlefield pistol!!! Well, that is if 2 world wars are any kind of relevant proving grounds....
Are you new, here?  Nobody challenges Tommy Gun on his fetish.

You are about to be asked a bazillion questions about whether you believe things you've never said - including links to his own threads which seem to be organized in some super database allowing him to open up a rabbit hole and invite you down.

Have fun.

 

SloopJonB

Super Anarchist
70,107
13,279
Great Wet North
Not that facts and evaluation from an actual US lawyer will mean anything here, I will post this.
Personally I think they are guilty as fuck...
I don't care who you are - giving a gun to a school kid who looks like this is criminal.

I mean WTF did they think was going to happen?

Ethan-Robert-Crumbley-ocso-1.jpg


 

Rain Man

Super Anarchist
7,372
2,179
Wet coast.
Well, yes, even you agree that it doesn't mean we shouldn't stop 95% of them. Enemy of the good is perfection and all that bullshit. 
I'm thinking there might be a 20% reduction, not 95%.  Time will tell.  High school kids know how to game the system much better than the people who invented the system.

 

Rain Man

Super Anarchist
7,372
2,179
Wet coast.
I don't care who you are - giving a gun to a school kid who looks like this is criminal.

I mean WTF did they think was going to happen?

I worked with lots of kids that looked like that in my teaching days.  There are a lot of identity diffuse adolescents, but with enough care and attention they can be turned around.  Sometimes it is the PE teacher, sometimes the English teacher, often it is the shop teacher.  That's one reason we send them to school, so they can be around functioning adults - this kid certainly didn't have any functioning adults at home.  It is easy to judge a book by its cover but teachers learn to look beyond that.  At least good ones do.

Sadly, it is too late for this kid.   All it took was a few bad choices and easy access to a gun.

 

roundthebuoys

Super Anarchist
9,909
919
Limelight
Those are all indoor locations and don't have a lot to do with the questions of whether the second amendment applies to post-18th century tech or whether it applies outdoors. They're also specifically mentioned in Heller, but only a reader could know that.
They are hardly "specifically" mentioned in Heller.  In fact, that case defers a lot to Miller when not addressing the Keep and Bear arms portion specific to the Heller Case.  It's an interesting read of course though because the SC is definitely using that case to define a portion of the 2A and does a pretty damn good job.  It also really makes no good case about about the Militia portion, OTHER than separating the two portions from each other.  Which is fine.  That wasn't really part of Heller anyway.  I think the FF probably knew what they meant when they used Old English history against tyranny to word it, but the Militia part confuses the Keep and Bear part.  Which, in modern times, is crucial to the definition of which arms we can "keep" and muddies the 1A for peaceful assembly.  Heller just tells me the two should have been separate amendments.

 
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Liquid

NFLTG
4,835
891
Over there
Are you new, here?  Nobody challenges Tommy Gun on his fetish.

You are about to be asked a bazillion questions about whether you believe things you've never said - including links to his own threads which seem to be organized in some super database allowing him to open up a rabbit hole and invite you down.

Have fun.
Unfashionably old, but I wont follow....

I've been passing over these 'BF 22' comments as they made my face twitch!

WTF is a BF 22 anyway? I can't be bothered to refine stupidity if one can't understand the difference between a 22 and a 223 - even if it says it knows (which I doubt)!!!

Back on topic:  The weapon used for this was a 9MM Sig Sauer with 15 rounds - not to common for white trash as $ig is a premium brand! How many magazines were purchased/recovered? That could be a telling piece to premeditation..... pistols usually only come with 1 or 2 mags.

Serious question: Would common sense back ground checks, like here in OR that I support, have stopped the parental handgun purchase?

As for post purchase - I'm biased: I lock all my shit in a 40 minute Liberty Safe.......

Good luck getting into that fucker without a tank shooting it open, even then - FU... (based on video evidence...)!!!

 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
45,443
10,211
Eastern NC
Unfashionably old, but I wont follow....

I've been passing over these 'BF 22' comments as they made my face twitch!

WTF is a BF 22 anyway? I can't be bothered to refine stupidity if one can't understand the difference between a 22 and a 223 - even if it says it knows (which I doubt)!!!

Back on topic:  The weapon used for this was a 9MM Sig Sauer with 15 rounds - not to common for white trash as $ig is a premium brand! How many magazines were purchased/recovered? That could be a telling piece to premeditation..... pistols usually only come with 1 or 2 mags.

Serious question: Would common sense back ground checks, like here in OR that I support, have stopped the parental handgun purchase?

As for post purchase - I'm biased: I lock all my shit in a 40 minute Liberty Safe.......

Good luck getting into that fucker without a tank shooting it open, even then - FU... (based on video evidence...)!!!
Safes are of limited value, because a real thief will either just take the whole safe, or cut your kid's toes off one at a time until you open it for them.

- DSK

 

Ishmael

54,103
13,377
Fuctifino
Unfashionably old, but I wont follow....

I've been passing over these 'BF 22' comments as they made my face twitch!

WTF is a BF 22 anyway? I can't be bothered to refine stupidity if one can't understand the difference between a 22 and a 223 - even if it says it knows (which I doubt)!!!

Back on topic:  The weapon used for this was a 9MM Sig Sauer with 15 rounds - not to common for white trash as $ig is a premium brand! How many magazines were purchased/recovered? That could be a telling piece to premeditation..... pistols usually only come with 1 or 2 mags.

Serious question: Would common sense back ground checks, like here in OR that I support, have stopped the parental handgun purchase?

As for post purchase - I'm biased: I lock all my shit in a 40 minute Liberty Safe.......

Good luck getting into that fucker without a tank shooting it open, even then - FU... (based on video evidence...)!!!
I heard 3 magazines. I think it was two 21-shot and one 15-shot. If parental units bought the magazines, no wonder they are sweating.

 

Liquid

NFLTG
4,835
891
Over there
Safes are of limited value, because a real thief will either just take the whole safe, or cut your kid's toes off one at a time until you open it for them.

- DSK
800lb safes bolted to the basement floor are generally hard to steal (If you didn't know, the bolting to the floor is done inside the locked safe)!

As for my kid's toe's.... What about the gun not in THAT safe?

 
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