Second US Team

Fireball

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Isn't it a bit late to start a new challenge? The other teams have been doing preliminary design work since the new boat was announced last year. This group doesn't seem to have even started yet.

 
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KiwiJoker

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If sailboat racing was only comprised of teams that were confident they had the financial resources to win, it would be a much smaller and very boring sport at every level.  Pretty much everyone who wasn't already in the know on this project who watched ConCup had the same thought:  hmm, these guys are good and young and gelled together quickly as a team, hope they have some future plans.  And now, it appears, they do.  Maybe there is a model here that could be followed by many others:  be young and scrappy, under-promise and over-perform, perhaps take a chance on a design or designer,  minimize infrastructure and overhead, crowdsource everything, speak to the younger generations in the sport and be in it for the long run (at least two cycles).  Couldn't be more excited for them and will look for ways to support.  If this isn't a team that SAers can get behind, with money and otherwise, I don't know what is. 

 

Boybland

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Isn't it a bit late to start a new challenge? The other teams have been doing preliminary design work since the new boat was announced last year. This group doesn't seem to have even started yet.
I don't know, a fair amount of the preliminary work was guesstimates anyway until the class rule was officially released, teams weren't even sure what components they could neccessarily put effort into.

That said now the rule is out teams will be putting real money and real simulation power into designs so you have to be quick at this point as things will really progress fast from here on in.

 

Team_GBR

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I don't know, a fair amount of the preliminary work was guesstimates anyway until the class rule was officially released, teams weren't even sure what components they could neccessarily put effort into.

That said now the rule is out teams will be putting real money and real simulation power into designs so you have to be quick at this point as things will really progress fast from here on in.
The issue isn't so much the preliminary work on the design itself, although it does seem that BAR are ahead of the game on that with a trial boat being built. The real issue is the development of the predictive models for simulation. These aren't bought off the shelf and this is where the real work is. ETNZ, BAR and LR have been working on these since the end of the AC, and they had a head start because of work done for AC34 and 35. My take is that if you haven't got your design team working now, your only option is a shared design with another team.

 
The issue isn't so much the preliminary work on the design itself, although it does seem that BAR are ahead of the game on that with a trial boat being built. The real issue is the development of the predictive models for simulation. These aren't bought off the shelf and this is where the real work is. ETNZ, BAR and LR have been working on these since the end of the AC, and they had a head start because of work done for AC34 and 35. My take is that if you haven't got your design team working now, your only option is a shared design with another team.
What happened to the design teams of artemis and oracle and the French . Did someone buy their assets /hire the people?

 

rh3000

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If sailboat racing was only comprised of teams that were confident they had the financial resources to win, it would be a much smaller and very boring sport at every level.  Pretty much everyone who wasn't already in the know on this project who watched ConCup had the same thought:  hmm, these guys are good and young and gelled together quickly as a team, hope they have some future plans.  And now, it appears, they do.  Maybe there is a model here that could be followed by many others:  be young and scrappy, under-promise and over-perform, perhaps take a chance on a design or designer,  minimize infrastructure and overhead, crowdsource everything, speak to the younger generations in the sport and be in it for the long run (at least two cycles).  Couldn't be more excited for them and will look for ways to support.  If this isn't a team that SAers can get behind, with money and otherwise, I don't know what is. 
Much of the approach you describe can be found in PB's approach for TNZ's 1995 campaign - a philosophy that still pervades the team today




 

Xlot

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If sailboat racing was only comprised of teams that were confident they had the financial resources to win, it would be a much smaller and very boring sport at every level.  Pretty much everyone who wasn't already in the know on this project who watched ConCup had the same thought:  hmm, these guys are good and young and gelled together quickly as a team, hope they have some future plans.  And now, it appears, they do.  Maybe there is a model here that could be followed by many others:  be young and scrappy, under-promise and over-perform, perhaps take a chance on a design or designer,  minimize infrastructure and overhead, crowdsource everything, speak to the younger generations in the sport and be in it for the long run (at least two cycles).  Couldn't be more excited for them and will look for ways to support.  If this isn't a team that SAers can get behind, with money and otherwise, I don't know what is. 
This. And incidentally, the budget they mention coincides with Max Sirena's much derided minimum figure

 

inebriated

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jeez louise

https://www.sail-world.com/news/204970


America's Cup: Team USA 21 - second US Challenger emerges


A second US team for the America's Cup has been working on a challenge for over a year - predating Emirates Team New Zealand's win in Bermuda on June 26, 2017.

taylor canfield helming

eight figure budget

just needs a couple more backers

 

Forourselves

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https://www.sail-world.com/news/204970/A-second-Americas-Cup-Challenge-is-well-underway

A few key points:

"They've been talking to Emirates Team New Zealand and Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron for a similar period. Having been in the Cup market for 12 months, Buckley says he has tripped over several unannounced teams - a northern European team, an Italian team and a Chinese team. "I haven't spoken to anyone involved in those teams, but I have heard from our contacts, that they are, like us, trying to secure funding. I think it would be great if we can get eight teams to Auckland - the more, the merrier."

"Locations under consideration include southern Florida, the West Coast and Chicago"

""There are different options with different yacht clubs. Groups have come to us in each of those regions, but it is going to come down to what our sponsors want"

"He is coy about who encouraged the team to form, other than to say it was an America's Cup professional who was involved with the America's Cup Authority last time around - but no longer associated with a team" - Maybe Russell Coutts?

"He adds that the team is not fazed by the AC75 and that in their view it evens the game, as no-one has sailed a boat of that type before and there is no advantage"

"From what all the designers are saying and Emirates Team New Zealand are telling us, the AC75 should perform as well or better than the AC50

He notes that the class rule has been out publicly for just over a month and that most teams will have their design offices working from scratch with a new concept rather than updating for an AC50 type concept.

 
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dogwatch

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Good luck to them. They are already way late though. It isn't very relevant that the class rule has only recently been published, the general parameters have long since been known and designers will have been busy. 

 

A Class Sailor

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just needs a couple more backers


Buckley says he has tripped over several unannounced teams - a northern European team, an Italian team and a Chinese team. "I haven't spoken to anyone involved in those teams, but I have heard from our contacts, that they are, like us, trying to secure funding.
Which means they aren't a reality yet. How many times do we hear that line and it comes to nothing? A team "trying to secure funding" is nothing. 

"From what all the designers are saying and Emirates Team New Zealand are telling us, the AC75 should perform as well or better than the AC50
I guess that would be the same people who are pedalling the BS about it only costing $50m to do a competitive campaign.

He notes that the class rule has been out publicly for just over a month and that most teams will have their design offices working from scratch with a new concept rather than updating for an AC50 type concept.
The biggest challenge is setting up the design office and developing the design tools needed. These cannot be bought off the shelf. Anybody without all of that in place now is well behind the curve and money can't help you catch up. 

 

Forourselves

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Which means they aren't a reality yet. How many times do we hear that line and it comes to nothing? A team "trying to secure funding" is nothing. 

I guess that would be the same people who are pedalling the BS about it only costing $50m to do a competitive campaign.

The biggest challenge is setting up the design office and developing the design tools needed. These cannot be bought off the shelf. Anybody without all of that in place now is well behind the curve and money can't help you catch up. 
You know... everyone said the same thing about ETNZ last time. They were "Well behind the design curve" They were "well behind the Bermuda Teams and are missing out by not training in Bermuda" "Staying in Auckland so long was going to hurt their campaign" All of that was BS, ETNZ was the last team to enter, but as it turned out were well ahead of the design curve, and the decisions they took were clearly better than what anyone else made. You don't need money to catch up, you need to be smart with the money you do have.

I would not be surprised to see the Second US team beat the first US team.

 
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A Class Sailor

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You know... everyone said the same thing about ETNZ last time. They were "Well behind the design curve" They were "well behind the Bermuda Teams and are missing out by not training in Bermuda" "Staying in Auckland so long was going to hurt their campaign" All of that was BS, ETNZ was the last team to enter, but as it turned out were well ahead of the design curve, and the decisions they took were clearly better than what anyone else made. You don't need money to catch up, you need to be smart with the money you do have.

I would not be surprised to see the Second US team beat the first US team.
You are getting confused. Nobody said they were behind the design curve. They were always well up on that because they had their own computer models developed over many years of AC campaigning. They were behind on the building and launching of their boat, which is something they admitted to. They also admitted that they would have done better to get to Bermuda earlier but in the end it didn't matter because they had the best design. After AC34, they never really stopped working on their design tools and began designing their boat for AC35 as soon as the rule was available and then again, when the rule was changed.

What you seem unable to grasp is that you cannot set up a team one day and start designing the next. One of ETNZ's great successes was their simulation program which allowed them to accurately forecast exactly how the boat would sail and what the optimum settings would be, so much so that they used it to set targets for the sailors to aim at. The software developed in house is what makes a team competitive. ETNZ has been developing their own software for many years. We are now at the point where the established teams have those tools in place and are designing. Any new team is playing catch up on design already, but without the software development, they are so far behind they cannot catch up. For the second US team to beat the first US team, the first one needs to seriously screw up.

 

Forourselves

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You are getting confused. Nobody said they were behind the design curve. They were always well up on that because they had their own computer models developed over many years of AC campaigning. They were behind on the building and launching of their boat, which is something they admitted to. They also admitted that they would have done better to get to Bermuda earlier but in the end it didn't matter because they had the best design. After AC34, they never really stopped working on their design tools and began designing their boat for AC35 as soon as the rule was available and then again, when the rule was changed.

What you seem unable to grasp is that you cannot set up a team one day and start designing the next. One of ETNZ's great successes was their simulation program which allowed them to accurately forecast exactly how the boat would sail and what the optimum settings would be, so much so that they used it to set targets for the sailors to aim at. The software developed in house is what makes a team competitive. ETNZ has been developing their own software for many years. We are now at the point where the established teams have those tools in place and are designing. Any new team is playing catch up on design already, but without the software development, they are so far behind they cannot catch up. For the second US team to beat the first US team, the first one needs to seriously screw up.
Haha sure they weren't.

The simulation software was developed for the Bermuda campaign. 

 

Terry Hollis

Super Anarchist
Haha sure they weren't.

The simulation software was developed for the Bermuda campaign. 
ETNZ's simulation software had been developed to a high standard for the AC34 series .. clearly it would have been refined for AC35 and will continue to be refined for AC36 and beyond.  Even Oracle were left way behind .. other entrants have an uphill battle.

 

A Class Sailor

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ETNZ's simulation software had been developed to a high standard for the AC34 series .. clearly it would have been refined for AC35 and will continue to be refined for AC36 and beyond.  Even Oracle were left way behind .. other entrants have an uphill battle.
Thanks Terry. Agree with you. It's what makes it so hard for 1st time teams. To be a first time team who hasn't even started yet and therefore so far behind puts them in an impossible position

 

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