Self-furling mainsail mast conversion?

[Smiley Junction]

Been trying my best to close a deal since January with no success given our crazy local market. For some reason my money seems to carry a stench…

Have found a boat that ticks every box but it has a self-furling main, which I very much don’t want. Is it possible to convert this to a traditional rig, or do I need a new mast, etc?

Intended use: coastal singlehanding and liveaboard now with view to extended offshore SH within 2-years. While “never” is a long time, I don‘t foresee sailing with crew anytime soon.

Many thanks.

 

[Mid]

self-furling main

more detail required , I'm guessing's it will be either in mast or in boom ?

either way retro fitting slab will be expensive .

 

[SimonGH]

I know lots of folks don't like furling mains, but need to inquire why you are so focused on removing it?

Nevertheless, I think it depends on how aggressive you want to be with the removal, and why you really want to remove it. I.e., if you're focused on weight aloft reduction, then you need to pull the furling shaft & the fittings in which it's supported in the mast, etc.

Are you planning on changing the sail, or do you want to somehow re-use the furling sail? What do you do about the vertical battens (if you have them?)

If you're basically only saving the raw mast, then you pull the furler, scrap the vertical batten sail, and then focus on the attachment hardware to mast and boom interfaces.

The challenges would be - how do you support the sail cars in the mast (i.e. what do they ride on). If you're ok with a free footed sail, then you don't need to worry too much about how to fasten to the boom - you already have an outhaul line.

The other thing you need to then consider is how you're going to reef, my boom has internal pulley systems for a single line reefing system...

As usual, need more details. How big are we talking about? All of the above is for a furling mast. if you have a furling boom then i think things get easier...

 

[Smiley Junction]

more detail required , I'm guessing's it will be either in mast or in boom ?

either way retro fitting slab will be expensive .

It’s in the mast

 

[SimonGH]

step mast and remove furler

donate/sell sail

buy and install track and cars

figure out how you're going to reef (since that will be needed info for the sail maker)

if you go with more than one reefing point you'll need another set of blocks and another clutch (i'm assuming you can reuse the blocks and clutch from the furling line for one reef)

buy new sail

I assume you can re-use your existing outhaul...

If it were me, the biggest question would be how the track would mount on the mast

 

[pqbon]

You might also want to check that mast isn't dependent on the furler for shape/strength.

You might want to sell the furling version of the mast/sails or see if you can swap for a non-furling version to get a mast with correct tuning properties/behaviour.

 

[maxstaylock]

If the boat ticks all your boxes otherwise, I am going to be controversial and say, just buy it and keep it as in mast furling. Like any system, it's got its advantages and disadvantages. You might find utility in the advantages, you might find the disadvantages are things you can live with. I think any attempt to change to slab is doomed, unless you are planning on replacing: Mast, standing rigging, boom, mainsail, and changing your deck layout substantially.

I like not having to mess about with a sail cover. I like not having to stow a main. I like that I can have infinite reef points. I like that I can explain taking a reef to a novice in about 10 words. I like that the outhaul seems to become a more useful tuning tool. If I'm on a boat with in mast furling, I find I can very quickly like the boat, and very quickly the advantages of slab reefing seem unimportant. It's a sailing boat, the difference between 5.15 knots and 5.35 knots doesn't really matter at all, unless you're racing, and even then, so what? Most of the pain people associate with in mast furling can be attributed to poor maintenance, or worn out sail. Keep it all in good condition, and I'll bet that in a years time, you'll be asking slab what?

 

[Potter]

If the boat ticks all your boxes otherwise, I am going to be controversial and say, just buy it and keep it as in mast furling. Like any system, it's got its advantages and disadvantages. You might find utility in the advantages, you might find the disadvantages are things you can live with. I think any attempt to change to slab is doomed, unless you are planning on replacing: Mast, standing rigging, boom, mainsail, and changing your deck layout substantially.

I like not having to mess about with a sail cover. I like not having to stow a main. I like that I can have infinite reef points. I like that I can explain taking a reef to a novice in about 10 words. I like that the outhaul seems to become a more useful tuning tool. If I'm on a boat with in mast furling, I find I can very quickly like the boat, and very quickly the advantages of slab reefing seem unimportant. It's a sailing boat, the difference between 5.15 knots and 5.35 knots doesn't really matter at all, unless you're racing, and even then, so what? Most of the pain people associate with in mast furling can be attributed to poor maintenance, or worn out sail. Keep it all in good condition, and I'll bet that in a years time, you'll be asking slab what?

The concerns I have always had with in mast furling is the 'what if'. Having seen a main get tangled with a bad furl, and the sheer shit fight to get it sorted, I have always felt the potential disaster far outweighs the convenience.
I am assuming that you have a process that means you never get a cluster? What is the absolute takeaway that means no issues even in strong winds?

 

[maxstaylock]

The main pitfalls with furling main always seem to start with doing an untidy furl. It's obvious when furling a headsail if you're not keeping enough load on the sheet to keep the furled sail smooth and tight and crease free as you furl it, you just need to use the same discipline when furling up the main, every time. You always need the wind forward of the beam, and always need the sail partly but not completely unloaded. Once it has been badly furled a few times, and the partly folded over leech has been dragged ass backwards out of the mast slot a few times, the stiffness of the fabric is damaged and the sail has stretched unevenly, meaning the sail is much more likely to furl badly, then get stuck when unfurling. The only solutions when this happens is to either get a slice taken off your leach, or get a new sail. Poor mechanical workings of the in mast furling mandrel gear and the outhaul hardware exacerbate this problem, until the rig basically becomes unusable.

I have sailed on tired, overused, under maintained charter boats that were like this, and sure, give me a shitter of a slab reefing system over a shitter of an in mast system any day. I have also sailed on well maintained and serviced in mast boats with recent high quality mainsails, and found the experience to be serene. Worst case scenario, a partly furled sail stuck half out, you can still twist up the remainder and lash it to the mast as best you can, wrapping whatever halyards about it to reduce bulk and windage until you can get it sorted, it's no worse than a partially stripped main halyard jammed at the masthead sheave, stopping you dropping the main with a slab reefing system, and no more likely either.

 

[Joakim]

It’s in the mast

There are many different types of furling masts and rigs. Usually furling mast are not meant to be bent as much as normal masts. If the rig type would allow prebend and bending more with increasing wind, you are better off by swapping the mast. If this is a common boat type, you may find someone wanting a furling main and even paying you for the swap.

 

[longy]

You have to structurally cover the gap in the aft side of the mast to set a normal main. The alloy flanges are not strong enuff to hold a mainsail luff without bending. Given this, and that a furling mast section is already heavier than a normal mast, if you want to revert to a normal main you should replace the mast entirely

 

[Bristol-Cruiser]

Two thoughts/questions - 1) what make of furling main is it? We had a Hood and did 36k nm with it and loved it. When we bought the boat with the furler I was a bit leery and checked around. Harken make a conventional track that bolts over the slot. I would agree with whoever said try it out and see. Our experience was offshore so coastal may not tell you all you want to know.

 

[Zonker]

I think the logical choice is pick another boat. Or live with the furling main.

It would likely not be very cost effective to bolt a flange on the back with a new track, new mainsail, new reefing gear etc.

 

[munt]

I've actually seen, up close and personal, the perversion known as "in mast mainsail furling." Though they vehemently claim that the newer sails can have good shape I hereby testify that they look absolutely disgusting and performance of said mainsail is garbage. Many excellent multis use rotating boom furling, it works very well, reefs perfectly, fits very high performance sails etc. Is the drawback mainsheet attachment point? Otherwise just stack it on the boom, man. C'mon!

 

[Hans Genthe]

Been trying my best to close a deal since January with no success given our crazy local market. For some reason my money seems to carry a stench…

Have found a boat that ticks every box but it has a self-furling main, which I very much don’t want. Is it possible to convert this to a traditional rig, or do I need a new mast, etc?

Intended use: coastal singlehanding and liveaboard now with view to extended offshore SH within 2-years. While “never” is a long time, I don‘t foresee sailing with crew anytime soon.

Many thanks.

Hi, maybe you should invest in good sails. This is a set of sails I´ve delivered for a moody 45 some years ago, after the sail change the Moody was faster than a Dehler 46 (see second image).
Elvstrøm has a lot of experience in furling sails, they have done a good job. Personally I prefer the classic reefing, but from the performance side this is cool stuff.

 

[VeloceSailing]

Worst case scenario, a partly furled sail stuck half out, you can still twist up the remainder and lash it to the mast as best you can, wrapping whatever halyards about it to reduce bulk and windage until you can get it sorted, it's no worse than a partially stripped main halyard jammed at the masthead sheave, stopping you dropping the main with a slab reefing system, and no more likely either.

In my world, the scenarios you describe are a nightmare and a big deal.
Think about these situations singlehanded, as the OP intend to sail and I can't see how wrapping a main around the mast can be done safely.
There is a reason why many singlehandedly switch even from the headsail furler to hanks.

What is the size of the boat?