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shit show (front page)


^ I think they are different incidents. After the photo above the main foil appears to ventilate, but the rudder doesn't. The boat pitches down and comes to a sudden stop, but doesn't appear to capsize.

In the grainy home video the rudder appears to ventilate first and the boat yaws into the wind, pitches up, rolls to leeward, the main foil ventilates and the boat drops from maximum height. So we have yaw, pitch, roll and heave.

It seems that sailing these boats you really don't want the rudder to let go at anytime.



Super Anarchist
IIRC, both incidents were on different tacks but with the same problem: boat falling to ww, but much more slowy in the second one.

IMO both were caused by too lift from the foil. See here just before the crash, the foil is out of the water




Super Anarchist
BTW, the mild crash they presented may be an early one as the boat had the float, which prevented the capsize.

Obviously we can't rule out a rudder problem but it seems that it was too much lift from the foil.

An  inversed V with more angle, as the ww one on the photo, may  be safer, ... but slower.

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Super Anarchist
^ I think they are different incidents.
Yes, I came to that conclusion too and nearly deleted the post. 

Maybe a case of trickle up? The joys of skiff sailing being introduced to what used to be lead mines? :)



Super Anarchist

Fickle FP, wasn't there some positivity after the 'stable flight' video, now it's hopeless :D


humble pie

It appears that I may have to eat my words, well at least some of them, when it comes to the new America’s Cup design. I have been watching some videos of  INEOS TEAM UK, the British Challenger for the America’s Cup, and the boat looks quite amazing.


All in all it seems to be shaping up to be a great regatta despite my earlier grumbling. – Brian Hancock.

etc @ fp

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Super Anarchist
I wanna know what vids he's been seeing that include tacks to come to the conclusion tacking is a bust?

Because I think of the 3-4 vids posted here there is only the one tack & it was foiling, maybe 2 gybes 1 of which was nearly foiling & quickly back up to speed, the other a successful foiling gybe.

Likewise he must have been watching a different competition last time where AC50s tacked slowly... :huh:



Super Anarchist
The AC has been vastly more relevant, most of its history. It's just that the modern PR hype has ignored the fact that the AC boats used to just be big mainstream racing yachts. The AC foilers are not.

In part, the belief that the AC boats were not relevant comes from US experience. It was quite different in England, when even the J-size boats often used to race week in, week out in local regattas. There's also a fair amount of simple PR hype.

The AC boats used to be built to existing rules - not to new rules as with the foiling AC boats.

The AC boats used to be built to the same rules as the typical smaller boats on the regatta circuits in the USA, UK and other parts of the world - not to unique rules as with the foiling AC boats. That J (or the original) was built to the same Universal Rule as the dozens of Ps, Ns, Ms, Rs and Ss that raced in clubs and regattas across North America. The Metre boats were similar - so similar that 23 Metres and L x SA rule boats were converted into Js. The smaller Universal Rule and Metre Rule boats were the foundation of widespread yacht racing and made up a very large proportion of the entire racing fleet. That's not the case with foilers. 

The Js and other AC boats also raced against normal club and regatta fleets, especially in the UK. A British AC challenger of the '30s could race at about 20% of the active sailing clubs in the country in a single season. AC boats like Magic, Galatea, Valkyrie II, Endeavour and Vim had long careers as typical big club and regatta cruiser-racers. The AC foilers do not do normal club regattas, and none of them have had careers before and after the AC.

Up till and including the J Boat era, for each AC challenger or defender there was at least one boat of similar speed, size and shape that also raced on the regatta circuit, but had nothing to do with the AC. These were boats like Cambria, Velsheda, White Heather II, Britannia, Satanita, Ephygia, Katoura, Navahoe and the early Meteors. That's not the case today - there are no 50 or 72 foot foiling cats out there on the normal racing circuits, and there are not going to be any 75 foot foiling monos taking part in normal events in mainstream regattas like BIRW or Cowes Week.

The fact that there were boats that were very similar to the AC boats, which were built without the slightest intention of racing for the AC, shows how close the AC boats used to be to "mainstream" racing. It's as if the AC was being sailed to the IRC or ORCi rules these days.

By the time the 12s were selected ocean racing was on the rise, but there were still lots of 8 Metres, 6 Metres, 5 Metres and 10 Metres racing around the world. There were even still M Class events in Cali, so the 12s weren't the biggest and fastest inshore racers of their time. The 12s were still racing as a class in Norway, I think. Eights were racing at class events in Scotland and Seattle. As far away as Australia, there had still been recent national events in 8 Metres and 6 Metres. That's not the case today. There is no 50 foot monofoiler fleet at any regatta. There is no fleet of 50 foot monofoilers racing each week in Sydney, Seattle and the Solent.

The simple facts are that the AC boats used to be pretty much mainstream big boats, of similar design, speed and size to many non-AC boats, and built to the same rules as hundreds of smaller boats that did local regattas alongside the AC boats. None of those factors apply with the AC foilers. The AC was much more relevant to the typical sailor in the past.
Could that not be compared to the way in which, following on from San Francisco, there has been a flurry of activity in foiling multis?  GC32s,  Phantoms,  ETF, F101 etc.  The majority of sailors in these classes are not pros, though obviously some are.