Should Folks Who Can't Read ... Vote?

ShortForBob

Super Anarchist
35,478
2,932
Melbourne
Using the middle name of Avaricious would be a lock.

Well, this little thought experience went about the way I thought. The knee jerkers took an early lead, then seemed to reconsider, so moved into parsing answers to carve out their "position", even tho If I'd been talking about the various types of disabled citizens who are otherwise functional, I'd have said so. Meli seemed to have lots to say but since I already know her "body of work" far too well, I have her on ignore. And, a nod to a history of voting abuse, I guess with the assumption that I didn't know about that, and, of course, there was the apparently obligatory couple of insults back and forth that makes PA what it is.

But thanks as always to the several posters who understood the question for the plainspeak that it was, and answered with relevancy. This was simply about making informed choices. "According to the U.S. Department of Education, 54% of adults in the United States have prose literacy below the 6th-grade level." For my money, that's not good enough.

And guess what ... " 21% of American adults categorized as having "low level English literacy," including 4.1% classified as "functionally illiterate" and an additional 4% that could not participate." That's over half of the <6th graders.

Now, social "scientists" have created a maze of literacies but my question just went to whether a person could manage whatever was required to vote in the first place, then read and consider what was on the ballot. I don't want real 6th graders or adults reading at that level making decisions. That's how we got Trump.
So you want to disenfranchise 54% of American voters?

Admit it, you were having a rant and got your arse handed to you.
Suck it up, I do :D
 

Blue Crab

benthivore
16,533
2,717
Outer Banks
Those opposed did make a very good point though - how do you stop the 'literacy' requirement being gamed to prevent people from voting that should be able to vote?

So while I sort of agree in theory, in practice I think the potential for abuse is too high to attempt this.

FKT
I hunch that these next two years will solve that very real possibility. If Rs carry the day(s) this will all be moot. If Ds, then I'm fine with individuals, every steenking one, to be able to fill out a voter reg card by themselves with a light bill receipt or something to show residency.

Jeff's suggestion of removing the affiliations seems simple and smart. Both teams will fight it.
Well, just look where voting for the educated got us.
It got us outplayed. Fool me once ...
The rest should be encouraged to vote.
Yes indeed. I'll drive 'em to the polls.
I respect the vote of an illiterate homeless person over about 30% of the electorate.
Bud, that's called a kneejerk response altho I suspect you're being honest.
yes, you should be able to vote regardless of your ability to read. Are you a citizen? Yes/No - that should be the only criteria

Not whether you have a permanent address
not whether you can read
not whether you pay taxes
or can pay a registration fee
or carry an ID
Well, the fees are not OK. The rest of that has legitimacy in my view that voters should be informed voters. I can see an allowance for the homeless who can read and have an ID. As a member of the Progressive yet Pragmatist Party, knowing for whom and what you're voting for is far more important than that you voted.

Anyway, thanks for playing. We have some states rights issues to sort out if we're not confined to our homes after Nov '24 waiting for the sound of jackboots on the drive.
 

Blue Crab

benthivore
16,533
2,717
Outer Banks
then why did you title it "sailinganarchy.com/threads/should-folks-who-cant-read-vote. "

cant read .. not wont, dont or refuse to
not even do but dont understand or comprehend ( they might exist )
Hey Phil, to quote John McEnroe: "You cannot be serious!" And send me some of that fine herb please.
 

dfw_sailor

Super Anarchist
1,540
676
DFW
Using the middle name of Avaricious would be a lock.

Well, this little thought experience went about the way I thought. The knee jerkers took an early lead, then seemed to reconsider, so moved into parsing answers to carve out their "position", even tho If I'd been talking about the various types of disabled citizens who are otherwise functional, I'd have said so. Meli seemed to have lots to say but since I already know her "body of work" far too well, I have her on ignore. And, a nod to a history of voting abuse, I guess with the assumption that I didn't know about that, and, of course, there was the apparently obligatory couple of insults back and forth that makes PA what it is.

But thanks as always to the several posters who understood the question for the plainspeak that it was, and answered with relevancy. This was simply about making informed choices. "According to the U.S. Department of Education, 54% of adults in the United States have prose literacy below the 6th-grade level." For my money, that's not good enough.

And guess what ... " 21% of American adults categorized as having "low level English literacy," including 4.1% classified as "functionally illiterate" and an additional 4% that could not participate." That's over half of the <6th graders.

Now, social "scientists" have created a maze of literacies but my question just went to whether a person could manage whatever was required to vote in the first place, then read and consider what was on the ballot. I don't want real 6th graders or adults reading at that level making decisions. That's how we got Trump.
It absolutely deserved a knee jerk reaction. Disenfranchising voters should be an automatic no.

The issue is who gets to define what 'informed' means. Who writes the test?

I unfortunately have numerous rw associates who believe the following are too undereducated or irresponsible in the ways of life to vote:

- college students ( unless Harvard etc)
- anyone under 30
- unmarried
- childless
- non religious
- non Christian.
- don't own property

Some, just like Ron Johnson said on media last week, believe Democrats should not be able to vote, because that = communism, and that is anti American.

It's not about illiteracy. It's about making it un patriotic to vote any other way than GOP. This isn't new, is just becoming amplified and socially accetable in the GOP to say it out loud.

Very Thirsten Howell III
 

Blue Crab

benthivore
16,533
2,717
Outer Banks
The issue is who gets to define what 'informed' means. Who writes the test?
I answered that very question in post #82 for actual comprehensive readers. But hey! I'm glad ya got yer 2c in. Since you missed it, it required a voter to prove they could fill out a voter's registration card by themselves. That ain't asking a lot, Cap but have a nice afternoon. Lotsa crap on TV today.
 

dfw_sailor

Super Anarchist
1,540
676
DFW
I answered that very question in post #82 for actual comprehensive readers. But hey! I'm glad ya got yer 2c in. Since you missed it, it required a voter to prove they could fill out a voter's registration card by themselves. That ain't asking a lot, Cap but have a nice afternoon. Lotsa crap on TV today.
Well unlike you, I don't have time to watch TV, nor have time to parse through everything you wrote on the topic, because I have boat work to do all weekend, for me it's either work work, or boat work, and TV is just a waste. But that's me.

Sure, voter registration is required. Just come up with a process that allows everyone who wants to register. That includes the young, old, infirm, own language (no English), the blind, those without digits etc.

Other countries do, how could such a simple process be so difficult for the US.

While you are at it, change the voting day to a Saturday or Sunday when it is easier for those who work 2 jobs to vote. It's not a big cost to the country to do so.

You really sound like my unfortunate associates who believe only the right type of people should be able to vote.
 

Blue Crab

benthivore
16,533
2,717
Outer Banks
Well unlike you, I don't have time to watch TV, nor have time to parse through everything you wrote on the topic, because I have boat work to do all weekend, for me it's either work work, or boat work, and TV is just a waste. But that's me.
Why bother to respond if not to the point of discussion? I only suggested TV since you obviously don't read. Note, a man who won't read is not ahead of the man who can't read.

This is too easy.
 

kent_island_sailor

Super Anarchist
27,683
5,527
Kent Island!
Well unlike you, I don't have time to watch TV, nor have time to parse through everything you wrote on the topic, because I have boat work to do all weekend, for me it's either work work, or boat work, and TV is just a waste. But that's me.

Sure, voter registration is required. Just come up with a process that allows everyone who wants to register. That includes the young, old, infirm, own language (no English), the blind, those without digits etc.

Other countries do, how could such a simple process be so difficult for the US.

While you are at it, change the voting day to a Saturday or Sunday when it is easier for those who work 2 jobs to vote. It's not a big cost to the country to do so.

You really sound like my unfortunate associates who believe only the right type of people should be able to vote.
Don't assume that all voter suppression ideas come from the right. They mostly if not all do now in 2022, but that was not always the case. What were called "progressives" early in the last century in the south were also very much into poll taxes, literacy tests, grandfather tests, and so on. Their fear back then was that what they assumed were largely illiterate, poor, and uniformed Black voters would be easily fooled, bribed, or both. They thought that reactionary Whites would easily convince Blacks to vote against their own interests.
That may or may not have been true, but sure as shit poor Whites have been pretty easily fooled into voting against their interests now!
* Keep in mind the power structure of the day back then. The 1% Whites kept the poor and quite uneducated Whites pitted against the slaves and then the newly freed slaves. The progressives of the time had a big enough issue with the usual bunch of deplorables voting to screw themselves over and over, they probably though the Blacks would be even easier to fool :rolleyes:
 

dfw_sailor

Super Anarchist
1,540
676
DFW
Why bother to respond if not to the point of discussion? I only suggested TV since you obviously don't read. Note, a man who won't read is not ahead of the man who can't read.

This is too easy.

No, it just shows you were unable to articulate your position succinctly in the first place, and subsequently had to refine your own thoughts, and are still struggling.

That's what I have to deal with on a daily basis here in Texas, and quite frankly, it's a complete waste of time. But I will be always respond to the dog whistles about voting.

Enjoy your Saturday. I've got a 30' deck that needs primer after being manicured for 2 years.
 
D

Deleted member 149385

Guest
That may or may not have been true, but sure as shit poor Whites have been pretty easily fooled into voting against their interests now!
* Keep in mind the power structure of the day back then. The 1% Whites kept the poor and quite uneducated Whites pitted against the slaves and then the newly freed slaves. The progressives of the time had a big enough issue with the usual bunch of deplorables voting to screw themselves over and over, they probably though the Blacks would be even easier to fool :rolleyes:
Interesting perspective.
 

ShortForBob

Super Anarchist
35,478
2,932
Melbourne
This is from the OP
I couldn't answer these
1664033658543.png
 

Rasputin22

Rasputin22
14,119
3,656
Probably Queenslanders :D
20,000 signatures!!
Hell I could get more than that for a petition to put Bluey the dog on a $5 note.
View attachment 542711
everyone loves Bluey

Loup Garou

Steve Irwin would fit right in with the Blue Dog of the Cajun Swamps of Louisiana.


The Blue Dog Coalition (commonly known as the Blue Dogs or Blue Dog Democrats) is a caucus in the United States House of Representatives comprising centrist members from the Democratic Party.[3][8][9] The caucus was founded as a group of conservative Democrats in 1995 in response to defeats in the 1994 elections. Starting in the twenty-first century, the caucus began shifting its ideology and began adopting more socially liberal stances in order align more closely with mainstream Democratic Party political values.[2] The Blue Dog Coalition remains the most conservative grouping of Democrats in the House, broadly adopting socially liberal and fiscally conservative policies and promoting fiscal restraint.[1]

1664034498568.png
 

phillysailor

Super Anarchist
8,893
3,675
Voting rights come with citizenship, not with education. I believe access to education is also a right which should come with citizenship.

They are both dependent upon citizenship, not on each other.

Giving some people the power of deciding who gets to be a citizen, who deserves full rights is autocratic and not democratic.

Fuck that.
 

SloopJonB

Super Anarchist
70,149
13,306
Great Wet North
The literacy rate in the US is somewhere north of 99%. Perhaps the emphasis should be helping the less tithe 1% become more literate.
I beg to differ;

Facts​


  • Fourteen percent of the employed population have low literacy skills;
  • 23 percent have low numeracy skills, and 62 percent have low digital problem solving skills (USDOE).
  • 1 out of every 6 adults in the U.S. lack basic reading skills – that means 36 million people can't read a job application, understand basic written instructions, or read the Internet (COABE, 2017).
  • 2 out of every 6 adults in the U.S. cannot handle basic numbers, like working a cash register or understanding a transit schedule (COABE, 2017).
  • There are 36 million adults in the United States with limited English, reading, or math skills (COABE, 2017).
  • Adult education serves adults aged 16 and above who are not in school, who lack basic reading and math skills, and who do not have a high school diploma or its equivalent (COABE, 2017).
  • Education levels have more impact on lifetime earnings than any other demographic factor, including race, gender, or ethnic origin (COABE, 2017).
  • Individuals who participate in adult-education and literacy programs have higher future earnings as a result of participating, and their income premiums are larger with more intensive participation (U.S. Department of Education, 2014).
  • Children whose parents are involved with them in family literacy activities score 10 points higher on standardized reading tests (Sénéchal, 2006).
  • Nearly 23 million of the country's foreign born have limited English proficiency (LEP).
  • More than ten million LEP residents – roughly 32 percent of low-educated adults in the U.S. – lack a high school diploma or its equivalent (McHugh, & Moraski, 2015)
  • Almost half of all children and young adults live in low-income households that are below 200 percent of the poverty line (CLASP, 2015)
  • Adults who get a high school equivalency earn, on average, $10,000 a year more, breaking cycles of poverty and illiteracy (COABE, 2017).
  • The GED® test was created in 1942 as U.S. military veterans returned home after service in World War II, since many of them had left high school prior to graduation (GED Testing).
  • Functional illiteracy is defined as having math, reading, or language skills below a 4th grade level. At this level, people may struggle to read a bus schedule, medicine bottle or job application (Seeds of Literacy).
  • Twenty-six percent of children who were read to three or four times in the last week by a family member recognized all letters of the alphabet. This is compared to 14 percent of children who were read to less frequently (NCES, 2000).
  • Children of parents with low literacy skills have a 72 percent chance of being at the lowest reading levels themselves (ProLiteracy, 2016)
  • Every year, one in six young adults—more than 1.2 million—drop out of high school (ProLiteracy, 2016).
 


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