Should Folks Who Can't Read ... Vote?

[ShortForBob]

I'm still astonished that baring felons from voting isn't contrary to the fourteenth.

Why would you be astonished. With so many felons, it's a very powerful voting block.
The USA seems to be reaping what they sowed 300 years ago and are fighting a rearguard action to contain a fire of their own making.

 

[Blue Crab]

Every single citizen should be able to vote, even felons and if other voters are concerned about the people or policies the illiterate, or uneducated, or uninformed voters are supporting then maybe they should feel vote for the people and policies that would address the root societal causes rather than trying to disenfranchise a segment of society.

Snick, snicker, snort! So you're OK with 54% 6th graders and 4% functionally illiterate and 4% of people too disabled to participate voting. Say no more. Please.

No really.

 

[bowman81]

Snick, snicker, snort! So you're OK with 54% 6th graders and 4% functionally illiterate and 4% of people too disabled to participate voting. Say no more. Please.

No really.

Go for it.

First stop the illiterate voting, then the uneducated, then the uninformed, then the women because why not then the blacks, then the Muslims, then the Jews, then the non land owners, then anyone that doesn't have more than $1 million cash...

At which point above did your vote get excluded? How long till your wet dream of excluding the undesirables from voting do you become one of those undesirable?

 

[ShortForBob]

Snick, snicker, snort! So you're OK with 54% 6th graders and 4% functionally illiterate and 4% of people too disabled to participate voting. Say no more. Please.

No really.

Tell me? what percentage of those able to vote in 1789-90 were functionally literate?
All of that 6% of white, land owning men?

instead of ranting on here wanting to take away the ONE tiny little bit of influence the illiterate have, maybe you should be doing something about raising literacy in your town?
Sit on a soapbox outside Walmart and read a book to the kids while their parents are shopping or something. Buy 100 new children's books for a poor school, start a parents and children's bedtime story night at the town hall where the kids come in their jammies and get supper (the local library can help you with this)

Your local library will be weeding hundreds of books every month. Most get pulped. Ask them if they will take them to the town hall and have a free book fete, storytime, free food, free books. Take literacy to the people.
get off your arse and do something.

 

[kent_island_sailor]

FYI - this is some interesting reading.

Timeline of voting rights in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

18th century​

1780s​

1789

• The Constitution of the United States grants the states the power to set voting requirements. Generally, states limited this right to property-owning or tax-paying white males (about 6% of the population).[1] However, some states allowed also Black males to vote, and New Jersey also included unmarried and widowed women, regardless of color. Since married women were not allowed to own property, they could not meet the property qualifications.[2]
• Georgia removes property requirement for voting.[3]

1790s​

1790

• The Naturalization Act of 1790 allows free white persons born outside of the United States to become citizens. However, due to the Constitution granting the states the power to set voting requirements, this Act (and its successor Naturalization Act of 1795) did not automatically grant the right to vote.[4]

1791

• Vermont is admitted as a new state, giving the vote to men regardless of color or property ownership.[5]

1792

• New Hampshire removes property ownership as requirement to vote.[6]
• Kentucky is admitted as a new state, giving the vote to free men regardless of color or property ownership. However, most Blacks in Kentucky may not vote because they are enslaved and after a short time, the vote is taken away also from free Blacks.[5]
• Delaware removes property ownership as requirement to vote, continues to impose need to pay taxes to vote.[3]

1798

• Georgia removes tax requirement for voting.[3]

​

 

[Blue Crab]

First stop the illiterate voting, then the uneducated, then the uninformed, then the women because why not then the blacks, then the Muslims, then the Jews, then the non land owners, then anyone that doesn't have more than $1 million cash...

Your inability to distinguish the first three from the rest is telling.

Please state why any group would want to consider the votes of folks who don't know the actual stakes or players.

Extra credit: please state why people routinely vote against their interests and how that plays out in their worlds.

Sunday Internet Special: The only equality of all 8B people happens immediately at birth. They need air. After that moment it's a crapshoot. The infamous "We hold these truths..." was simply aspirational grandiloquence as evidenced by the facts of the time.

For the third time in this thread, my test simply requires the ability to read and understand and fill out the registration docs by oneself. And you want the bar lower than that?

 

[kent_island_sailor]

Your inability to distinguish the first three from the rest is telling.

Please state why any group would want to consider the votes of folks who don't know the actual stakes or players.

Extra credit: please state why people routinely vote against their interests and how that plays out in their worlds.

Sunday Internet Special: The only equality of all 8B people happens immediately at birth. They need air. After that moment it's a crapshoot. The infamous "We hold these truths..." was simply aspirational grandiloquence as evidenced by the facts of the time.

For the third time in this thread, my test simply requires the ability to read and understand and fill out the registration docs by oneself. And you want the bar lower than that?

Very much so. Citizens can vote, even stupid ones.

 

[Blue Crab]

Why?

Edit to add: 'Stupid" is too broad. Illiterate and uninformed is better, tho I expect many uninformed can fill out the forms. I'm sticking with non-readers as stated.

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

For the third time in this thread, my test simply requires the ability to read and understand and fill out the registration docs by oneself. And you want the bar lower than that?

I already explained why I trust illiterates more than non-readers.

But your problem here might be that you're asking about the wrong right. I think you might be able to find one on which the people here would accept any limitation, no matter how absurd. Look real hard. The answer might just... ahem... stun you.

 

[Blue Crab]

I already explained why I trust illiterates more than non-readers.

But your problem here might be that you're asking about the wrong right. I think you might be able to find one on which the people here would accept any limitation, no matter how absurd. Look real hard. The answer might just... ahem... stun you.

How about skipping the bullshit and write what you mean? The problem here actually is people parroting what they've been told.

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

How about skipping the bullshit and write what you mean? The problem here actually is people parroting what they've been told.

I thought it was about illiterates voting.

This place has lots of non-readers who obviously could read, they just choose not to in order to avoid puncturing their precious information bubbles.

I wish they wouldn't vote.

I've mentioned before that I have illiterate customers. Sensible people who work and pay bills. A LOT more sensible than some of the non-readers here, so I'd be happy to see them vote.

Hope that answers both of your very different questions.

I meant every word of that post. Who do you think told me to say it?

Did you want examples of non-readers? There are several from whom to choose.

 

[Blue Crab]

Oh, I got the non-reader part as distinguished from illiterate.

 

[Blue Crab]

Did you want examples of non-readers?

Those wouldn't be in my top ten.

 

[Burning Man]

The inability to read and write is possibly a great thing when it comes to US elections.
Just look at all the lies, slander and misinformation they miss, unlike their better educated brethern..

That's why Fox news was invented. You don't need to be able to read or write to be brainwashed when you have someone telling you lies 24/7 right there in your double wide trailer livin' room.

 

[Burning Man]

I was also taught how to listen, analyse and debate in grade 6 at an ordinary Australian state school

They failed you then.



















Sorry, that was too easy of a slow pitch right over the center of the plate to not take a swing at.

 

[Olsonist]

Yes, people who can't read should be able to vote.

 

[kent_island_sailor]

I'll say illiterate people can be denied the right to vote as long as they are exempt from Selective Service registration and taxes

 

[Burning Man]

Using the middle name of Avaricious would be a lock.

Well, this little thought experience went about the way I thought. The knee jerkers took an early lead, then seemed to reconsider, so moved into parsing answers to carve out their "position", even tho If I'd been talking about the various types of disabled citizens who are otherwise functional, I'd have said so. Meli seemed to have lots to say but since I already know her "body of work" far too well, I have her on ignore. And, a nod to a history of voting abuse, I guess with the assumption that I didn't know about that, and, of course, there was the apparently obligatory couple of insults back and forth that makes PA what it is.

But thanks as always to the several posters who understood the question for the plainspeak that it was, and answered with relevancy. This was simply about making informed choices. "According to the U.S. Department of Education, 54% of adults in the United States have prose literacy below the 6th-grade level." For my money, that's not good enough.

And guess what ... " 21% of American adults categorized as having "low level English literacy," including 4.1% classified as "functionally illiterate" and an additional 4% that could not participate." That's over half of the <6th graders.

Now, social "scientists" have created a maze of literacies but my question just went to whether a person could manage whatever was required to vote in the first place, then read and consider what was on the ballot. I don't want real 6th graders or adults reading at that level making decisions. That's how we got Trump.

Thanks for putting me in the "several posters who understood the question for the plainspeak that it was, and answered with relevancy" camp. I fully understand your question and I share your concerns. I will again reiterate that the lack of ability to read does not mean they are too stupid to vote. You WOULD think in this day and age that anyone who can't read is just too stupid or too lazy. But given our abysmal education system in the US, I can't put all the blame on the individuals.

So I think going down the path of lack of ability to READ as a barrier to voting is simply misplaced. Where the trouble lies is not the inability to read but rather it's the lack of knowledge, understanding, and level of being informed as to not only the voting system but more importantly what the candidates they are about to vote for or against actually stand for and what their positions are. THAT IS THE DANGER!!! I continue to adamantly believe that if a prospective voter doesn't have even the most basic understanding of the candidate they are about to pull the lever for - they should NOT be allowed to cast a vote. THAT is where the danger to our democracy lies because even people like Hitler, Stalin, Pinochet, Trump, Saddam Hussein, etc. get "elected" because propaganda, lies and deceit work! And there are many ways beyond just reading to become informed. An uninformed or misled electorate is how dictators come to power and is how trump got elected and almost re-elected. So reading is not the a true indicator of intelligence or education. There are many ways to skin that cat.

 

[SloopJonB]

Oh, I got the non-reader part as distinguished from illiterate.

Well... that would solve the Trump situation permanently.

So there's that.

 

[Burning Man]

Voting rights come with citizenship, not with education. I believe access to education is also a right which should come with citizenship.

They are both dependent upon citizenship, not on each other.

Giving some people the power of deciding who gets to be a citizen, who deserves full rights is autocratic and not democratic.

Fuck that.

Agreed. Hence why I suggested removing all party affiliations from the ballot so that the voter has to actually think who they are voting for.

I also agree w/ you about education in the US. This is truly probably our #1 issue/problem in the US and therefore should be priority #1. And that's not hyperbole. We used to be the global leader in so many areas because of our good, solid education system and we produced, on the whole, bright, educated, well informed young adults. Good on us for for doing "moonshots" for Cancer and other worthwhile endeavors. But honestly, education should take center stage for funding until this situation is rectified. And the bonus is that focusing on education would likely solve SOOOO many other social ills that plague us. So it's like a "magic bullet" in so many ways. I strongly believe that a good to great education system would really significantly reduce the drug addiction problem, the violence problem, the social despair problem, the school shooting and mass murder problem, the inner gang problem, and a host of other societal issues that we struggle with. A highly educated populace in many ways IS the universal solution to so many intractable problems we face.