Should I Buy a Beneteau Oceanis 38.1?

[Rude Dog]

Well, at least your handle is appropriate Rude Dog. I make it a point not to mock anyone's partner, their kids or their boat. I may think thoughts but I keep them to myself. However, I will call out a lout. I also may be making some sailorly chiding into something else...as you were.

Jim: Bullshit. I don't mock people but making (even mocking) comments on boats and how they're set up are simply my observations. And if you read his response, he seems not put off at all.

 

[Rude Dog]

😄 Hi Rude Dog, great answer! As for all others, please do not hold back with your ideas. There are no obligations to follow other sailors tracks. Well, when i read RD's comments i had a big 🙂. I'm by no means offended. In my young days I sailed regatas, with reasonable success. Every point you mentioned I would have signed! Now having started my pensioners life, priorities have changed. In the MED average sailing time of life aboards might add up to less than 20%, the remainig time the boat and crew are at anchor or in the marina. We do not like clogged up marinas, hence we where looking for independence and do not want to miss the comfort.
The bow thruster is essential in thight spaces in marinas. The twin rudders are barely feeling flow from the prop wash. Turning on the spot with only 6ft room fore-aft is not the sweet spot of the 38.1
The additonal 40gal forward tank allows us to spend a week out in the bays and still have regular fresh water showers.😎.
Yours and ours concept are very different, which proofs that the 38.1 can be a boat for a wide range of usage.
BTW 8kn wind is (with our sluggish boat, addmited) 4kn speed on the instrument, having the Beneteau standard code-0 hoisted.
A diversion: summer 21, north coast Menorca, we were at anchor over boulders which came up to approx.5ft under sl. A Pogo sailed into the same spot, we yelled and signaled shallow water.
Its hard to desribe the panic when they saw the rocks well above the keel tip. Lucky they got away with some scratches.
And we had the bay again to ourselfs.
The lift the smoke on vessel/crew/language issue. Dual nationals, all nautical certificates of competences from our 2nd home country Australia, language from 1st country Switzerland.
We are probably all eager to learn about your feedback, hopefully you can step your foot soon on the deck!

Thanks so much!! The key is: you love your boat and have set up the way want it, based on tremendous experience. So it's all legit.

Yes, no question a bow thruster is gigantic plus for tight maneuvering; I have no doubt there will be more than few instances when it will come in handy. I just coulld not stomach the added weight, the huge holes in the hull and so forth.

Your comments are triggering some regret that I didn''t go for the lifting keel. It really is a huge advantage for opening up moorings otherwise inaccessible.

Hopefully I'll make my way over to the Med eventually and when I do, perhaps we'll be able to meet up- you seem like really nice people who teach me a lot about sailing around the Med. Thanks again for your comments!

 

[mambi]

I seriously considered ordering the lifting keel for a Jeanneau 380, but I couldn’t justify a $37k option, that’s a 10% up sell.

 

[Rude Dog]

I seriously considered ordering the lifting keel for a Jeanneau 380, but I couldn’t justify a $37k option, that’s a 10% up sell.

$37K for a lifting keel? That's a crazy expensive option. I wonder why they charge so much. Maybe it comes with your own boat slave who hand-cranks the keel up and down......

 

[Jud - s/v Sputnik]

$37K for a lifting keel? That's a crazy expensive option.

I wouldn’t be cheap.

 

[Tilaya]

$37K for a lifting keel? That's a crazy expensive option. I wonder why they charge so much. Maybe it comes with your own boat slave who hand-cranks the keel up and down......

Hi, its me again
the extra of a lifting keel, grabs about 7300EUR (about the same number in USD)from your pocket.
You get a fixed keel of about 2ft height (draft) with winglets and on the inside close to te saloon a kind of box / pedestal which is housing the lifting rod. We got two exendable auminium legs to be attached to fittings on the hull sides, close to the stanchions, intended to stop the boat from falling over if it is high and dry. The rudder tips are fitted with "shoes". Hence Beneteau made the boat fit to stand by itself on the hard. I do not know if there are structural enhancents on the rudder stock, the rudder suport, the keel and the inner mould to allow the load to be carried on the 3 points.

greetings
Conrad

 

[Rude Dog]

Hi, its me again
the extra of a lifting keel, grabs about 7300EUR (about the same number in USD)from your pocket.
You get a fixed keel of about 2ft height (draft) with winglets and on the inside close to te saloon a kind of box / pedestal which is housing the lifting rod. We got two exendable auminium legs to be attached to fittings on the hull sides, close to the stanchions, intended to stop the boat from falling over if it is high and dry. The rudder tips are fitted with "shoes". Hence Beneteau made the boat fit to stand by itself on the hard. I do not know if there are structural enhancents on the rudder stock, the rudder suport, the keel and the inner mould to allow the load to be carried on the 3 points.

greetings
Conrad

I've seen photos of boats with this setup- lets you beach your boat, I guess. I'd love to see a photo of your boat out of the water, as I've yet to see a B38.1 with the lifting keel option.

Anyway....just 20 more days and my boat is supposed to be finished. By the time I finally lay eyes on her, it will have been almost an entire year. And it's been 6 months since I've been sailing. Pure torture.

 

[Panoramix]

Avoid thrustering when retrieving the anchor

Why would you need bow thruster action to retrieve the anchor ?

Even if you are going under sail the rudder will do... you just need to remember that when you are going backward it works backward.

 

[Bryanjb]

We use the anchor pendant to pay chain in and out, count the chain and position the bow, with the thruster, as we retrieve the chain. It works well for us

 

[Panoramix]

We use the anchor pendant to pay chain in and out, count the chain and position the bow, with the thruster, as we retrieve the chain. It works well for us

The thruster is going to work against the chain, not sure what it is doing.... If your anchor still has grip, the bow is not going anywhere, it is just following the chain direction while boat is going forward slowly. So if the helm is paying attention and keeping the rudder inline, the boat stays inline. Once the anchor looses grip, if the engine is on you carry on at a very slow pace to let the crew finish hauling the chain, if the engine is off - leaving under sail - at some point you start to loose steerage, stop and eventually go backward and then regain steerage.... But in practice as long as you don't have 50m to haul in, it isn't a big deal. You just don't want to go forward at a good pace.

On a smallish boat (8m) you can even do it singlehanded under sail all by hand. To do so, you get just the mainsail up, block the tiller in the middle, get enough momentum hauling the rode so that the boat is about stopped when you finish hauling in. Go back to the cockpit, put the tiller fully on the opposite tack you want, sheet in the main, pull the tiller and off you go!

 

[Rude Dog]

Since we're chatting about anchoring.....

Of course I've been binge-watching tons of sailing videos on YouTube, and the topic of anchoring is discussed and filmed a great deal. My anchoring education taught me that the length of the chain is supposed to approximate the boat's LOA. Then you deploy enough rope scope for a 4:1 or 5:1 ratio of rope to water depth, depending on conditions, after allowing for the entire length of chain to sit on the bottom.

On YouTube, most cruising boats seem to use mostly chain, no matter what. WTF? I thought you use extra chain only for rocky bottoms, or when anchoring in deep water.

I want to carry adequate anchoring tackle but have no interest in carrying the dead weight of hundreds of feet of chain. My thinking- at least at the moment- is have 45 feet of chain, and about 350 feet of rope. And maybe carry an extra 75-100 feet of extra chain.

I'd love to hear more comments about this from cruisers. FYI, I did not order a "chain counter"- just another fancy, unneeded item to break. Instead, I'll do what I've always done: install red depth markers every 10 feet of anchor rope.

I also do not have any experience using snubbers, and would appreciate an explanation of how to use and deploy them. What kind of snubber will work best for a B38.1?

Update

House all packed. Car serviced, new tires installed yesterday. Younger brother arrives tonight. Storage container has been contracted for, movers arrive Friday morning. Saturday is the final house cleanup. Real estate agents have toured the house. Less than 2,000 square feet, it will still fetch in excess of $2M- the neighborhood is an oasis in the greater Bay Area cesspool, and highly desirable, so I think my landlord wants to cash out, knowing he'll unlikely find another tenant like me. Saturday night going-away dinner with best friends, then Sunday begins the long cross-country drive- doing the traditional "Route 66" to Carolina: Bay Area to Barstow-Holbrook AZ-Amarillo-Siloam Springs AR (visit grandparents hometown)-Nashville-Hayesville NC. There I'll enjoy the beauty of the Appalachians as I await the boat's arrival in Charleston. Oh- did I mention I (finally) caught the Wuhan 10 days ago, and was still testing positive yesterday even though I feel fine?

Good bye, California. For the time being, anyway......

 

[Panope]

Since we're chatting about anchoring.....

.......My anchoring education taught me that the length of the chain is supposed to approximate the boat's LOA.......

..........On YouTube, most cruising boats seem to use mostly chain, no matter what. WTF? I thought you use extra chain only for rocky bottoms, or when anchoring in deep water..........

There is no right or wrong way to do it. Just different.

My father lost Panope's primary anchor due to rode chafe at the boat. Yes, this could have been mitigated with better preparation.

All chain pretty much eliminates that particular problem.

 

[Veeger]

As a former multihull guy, I used a combination rope/chain rode--about 100-150's of chain and 300' of line. Chain sure quiets down the hunting aspect of a boat at anchor. Your Beneteau will indeed hunt while at anchor (my 46.1 does and that's WITH an all chain rode) The reality though, is that it covers much less of the anchorage than it would with a mostly all line rode. I 'get' the concern regarding all that weight but would strongly encourage at least 100' of chain (probably 5/16" G4 for your boat). Make sure your gypsy can handle both line and (that type/size) chain and your life will be much easier.

You're cruising now. One of the required skill sets is understanding how all the boats in a given anchorage are anchoring. When I see most with a chain and snubber coming up over the roller, I know that they will swing much less on a quiet night than I would on a mostly rope setup. Sure, you can just 'allow' for a bigger radius when you drop the hook. But here's the catch, the next boat that shows up after you will think, 'aha!, I see room between that Beneteau 38.1 and the others, I'll just drop there'. i.e. Increased allowance for swing essentially 'invites' the morons to fill in that space... At least with 100/150' of chain you will be less likely to 'kiss' them at night. Of course, when the evening sundowner is 20kts plus, well everything will really start separating the men from the boys in the anchorage.

 

[Rude Dog]

As a former multihull guy, I used a combination rope/chain rode--about 100-150's of chain and 300' of line. Chain sure quiets down the hunting aspect of a boat at anchor. Your Beneteau will indeed hunt while at anchor (my 46.1 does and that's WITH an all chain rode) The reality though, is that it covers much less of the anchorage than it would with a mostly all line rode. I 'get' the concern regarding all that weight but would strongly encourage at least 100' of chain (probably 5/16" G4 for your boat). Make sure your gypsy can handle both line and (that type/size) chain and your life will be much easier.

You're cruising now. One of the required skill sets is understanding how all the boats in a given anchorage are anchoring. When I see most with a chain and snubber coming up over the roller, I know that they will swing much less on a quiet night than I would on a mostly rope setup. Sure, you can just 'allow' for a bigger radius when you drop the hook. But here's the catch, the next boat that shows up after you will think, 'aha!, I see room between that Beneteau 38.1 and the others, I'll just drop there'. i.e. Increased allowance for swing essentially 'invites' the morons to fill in that space... At least with 100/150' of chain you will be less likely to 'kiss' them at night. Of course, when the evening sundowner is 20kts plus, well everything will really start separating the men from the boys in the anchorage.

AWESOME advice, Veeger- really appreciate it and makes complete sense: the more chain instead of rope, the less "hunting" so that's a good argument for being more "chain-centric"- having 100' of chain won't be an issue as far as excessive weight is concerned.

 

[monkphunk]

On the U.S. east coast, you'll be in a lot of shallow anchorages. I think you'll want a snubber you can attach in situations where you don't want to pay out all of your chain to get to the rope part of the rode. (We're all chain, so we always have a snubber).

I'll put in a plug for rigging up a bridle for the snubber rather than using just a single leg. We hunt less at anchor since we've switched. Make the legs long (like a boat length or a little more), so if you want to use the bridle to adjust how you are pointing into the swell you can.

 

[Panoramix]

AWESOME advice, Veeger- really appreciate it and makes complete sense: the more chain instead of rope, the less "hunting" so that's a good argument for being more "chain-centric"- having 100' of chain won't be an issue as far as excessive weight is concerned.

Against hunting, if you don't mind being an eccentric, you can rig the storm jib on the backstay and "trim it" backward (what would normally be the leech toward the front).

I am too much of a conformist to have tried it but apparently it works...

 

[Veeger]

@Rude Dog.

This is where having your anchor not actually on the sprit, you'll have an easier time of it rigging a bridle. I, quite literally, have no way (easy?) to rig a bridle since the sprit is 3' outboard and with a small solid strut. Currently a single snubber via rolling hitch over the roller is my best option. I may yet work something out but my first attempts led to much (many?) bad words....

 

[Elegua]

My 0.02. I currently have 100’ of chain and 200’ of rope rode attached to a 66# spade for a 38’ boat. I use 5/16 G4 to manage the weight. Mostly it works fine, especially if I’m anchoring in 10’ or less.

Occasionally you end up in an anchorage with 30’ depths and if the wind isn’t consistent, you can end up with your rope rode getting caught on things on the bottom. Twice I’ve had the rope rode un-lay and chafe overnight in a situation like that. I’m going to increase the chain to 150 or 200’.

When I was a kid my parents cruised with CQR and 15’ of chain. Different times.

 

[Jud - s/v Sputnik]

everything will really start separating the men from the boys in the anchorage.

Sometimes you feel lucky and get lucky.

Sometimes you feel lucky but don’t get lucky.

And sometimes, well…you don’t feel lucky and you don’t get lucky either. The worst feeling ever…

For Alaska, which has some 60’+ deep anchorages, we had 200’ of chain and 150’ of rope. (33’ boat, 44# Bruce) For just local cruising now, about 100’ of chain plus the rope. I recall @accnick here mentioning he had 300’ of chain on his boat he circumnavigated on. (I think parts of Polynesia have some deep —60-70’?— anchorages, where coral can be a major concern.) I know some have mentioned carrying an extra length of chain in their bilge, say, 100’, that can be attached to the shorter (200’) regularly used chain for when venturing into such places. Patagonia? That’s sounds fairly, um, serious.

Weight? Whatever…it is what it is for the peace of mind. Food, water, fuel, spare anchors, tools, books, etc etc etc are the bulk of the weight. An extra 100’ of 5/16 regular chain (not G4) is only about a 100 lbs. I personally dislike stuffing 100’ of rope down a hawse pipe…

 

[Veeger]

My 0.02. I currently have 100’ of chain and 200’ of rope rode attached to a 66# spade for a 38’ boat. I use 5/16 G4 to manage the weight. Mostly it works fine, especially if I’m anchoring in 10’ or less.

Occasionally you end up in an anchorage with 30’ depths and if the wind isn’t consistent, you can end up with your rope rode getting caught on things on the bottom. Twice I’ve had the rope rode un-lay and chafe overnight in a situation like that. I’m going to increase the chain to 150 or 200’.

When I was a kid my parents cruised with CQR and 15’ of chain. Different times.

Yep, 150' is what I would want for chain at a minimum. Even on @Rude Dog 's 38'er, the extra weight is inconsequential in the overall scheme of things. My new boat is 300' chain, plus a couple hundred feet of rode after that. (I've had to anchor in 70+ feet on occasion up in Jud's waters) On my previous boats I used 8 braid plaited anchor line for it's very friendly, low volume storage features. The strands did tend to show some wear on the chain/rope gypsy. Once your anchor line gets well salt filled and stiff, the plait is easier to work with but requires a Splicing 201 level of seamanship vs the Splicing 101 level of 3 strand splicing.