Kenny Dumas
Non Binary About Anything
Just got a pair of these to go with the two I’ve been running for a couple years $1100 for the pair
Smart Alternator/controller
- Thread starter zenmasterfred
- Start date
How are you finding them?
They have some deals on right now in the UK with 100ah for £450.
Just 100ah of cells would I think cost about the same as that here if not more, and that's without the BMS, so they do look quite compelling.
Rather than messing with the stock alternator on my Yanmar, I got a DC to DC device instead - it can be custom tuned to your battery needs:
https://www.victronenergy.com/dc-dc-converters/orion-tr-smart
https://www.victronenergy.com/dc-dc-converters/orion-tr-smart
zenmasterfred
Super Anarchist
- Thread starter
- #24
Great, more for my senior brain to obsess about. :wub: Thanks for the input, I'll take a look. Still thinking about to keep with KISS, keep it simple stupid!
solosailor
Super Anarchist
LIPOs are not used in marine applications.... take it to phone anarchy.
solosailor
Super Anarchist
Just over .5C charge rate sounds splendid.
Sailabout
Super Anarchist
the P is for phosphate
elite_killerX
New member
- 1
- 3
Not in LiPo. LiPo stands for Lithium-Polymer, which is probably the most dangerous lithium chemistry out there. Used in applications where light weight and performance are more important than safety, like RC planes and helicopters.
Phosphate is used in Lithium-Iron-Phosphate batteries, LiFePO4 or LFP for short. These are the safest lithiums out there, and are the ones we use in boats.
Don't mix the terms, they are important.
solosailor
Super Anarchist
For those with or considering a Renogy type "sealed" battery with internal BMS be very aware of their limitations. Those internal BMS units usually can only handle 50A-100A of charging. Lets say you have a couple in parallel and one of the BMS units fail (there are many points of BMS failure) then the remaining battery is taking the whole charge load and will also shut itself off along with your entire boats DC system..... AND since the BMS is not talking to the alternator to turn it off you can burn it out as well (a surge device can help protect it like the Balmar APM).
That's something that's not specifically restricted to drop in type batteries - any MOSFET based BMS will have similar limitations, but with the self-contained batteries you are stuck with whichever BMS capacity they decide to include. At least with separate cells and BMS you can select one which has sufficient capacity for your charging requirements.
It comes down to being aware of the specification of your system - I'm not convinced that battery manufacturers and sellers always do a sufficiently good job of explaining the difference with LFP batteries when they are sold as 'drop-in' replacements.
solosailor
Super Anarchist
Most external BMS units have a rating of 100-200A+ AND can be bypassed if the BMS fails so I still recommend that route.
jzk
Super Anarchist
- 13,025
- 483
Mine can handle 100A each, and I have 9.
Sailabout
Super Anarchist
thats what I meant, thanks for the lesson
willsailforfood
Anarchist
We've been looking at various manufacturers and consulting with our insurance agent, and three things came up in our underwriter's requirements for continuing coverage when upgrading to lithium.
1) The batteries had to carry UL approval/listing
2) External BMS was mandatory
3) Overcurrent protection for other key systems was mandatory
They also mentioned that they wanted end to end system schematic, and it had to be installed by an installer that would sign off on the installation as not having deviated from the design.
Talking to a few others with older, but higher value yachts in similar discussions with their underwriters showed this is not uncommon these days.
I had the same conversation with my agent, their UK underwriters had a lot of questions and eventually got to the same place as above. I was planning to do a full Lithionics install anyway, UL approved battery, external dual channel BMS, and a Field control circuit on the BMS that shuts off both alternators and each charging source if the BMS has an overcurrent event.
Which underwriter insists on an external BMS?
willsailforfood
Anarchist
Almost everyone we spoke to via our agent, who I have insured 4 previous boats with and now our Hinckley. He made a point of mentioning that this is increasingly true for boats where Li is not factory installed.
occams_razor
Member
I used a Delco 28Si. Output of the Balmar at idle was underwater, insufficient to feed even the motor electronics. Output of the Delco about 90 amps net at same idle. Output at cruise cold Delco a little more, and hot about the same or maybe Delco a little more - both derate considerably when hot, whether controlled by the Balmar or Wakespeed regulator. I did convert the Delco to external regulation. At a frame temp of 100° C, about 100A net from each, so maybe 120 considering house loads. The 28si also comes in a 200A spec, but I doubt the cooling is any different so it will still derate to the same. Delco now makes a 40Si, a little longer body and won't fit my application.
DrewR
Utility Infielder
^^ Does the Delco 28si have alternate mounting points for say a Yanmar 3GM30? I'm curious if it work.
