Sngle handed head sail arrangement

I have a 9600 lbs, S2 9.1. I want to do the Bermuda 1-2 next year. It seems that at more than 4.5 tons the S2 is a little more tender than I expected. I did the 2
bridges fiasco last weekend in the Chesapeake. The S2 rounded up 3-4 times in 15 knots of breeze close hauled with full main and 2/3 rolled up #1. I know I should
have reefed the main, but single handed "round the buoy" race. it didn't seem worth it. I don't know how Andrew Evans does it with a 2 ton Olson 30, but he has
MUCH more experience single handing than I do.

My choices for head sails are:
    1)Get a 4 or 5 ounce genoa on furling head stay and a 7.5 ounce #2 (with hanks) to go on a temporary dyneema stay that I can shorten (reef) to #3. 
I'll be using the the #1 close hauled with less than 8-10  knots and up to 15-18 reach. 
    2)Get a 7 ounce genoa that I can furl as much as I need.
 
Questions are:
    1) Is a #2 that is 6 to 12 inches behind a rolled up #1 really a more efficient sail than a 7 ounce #1 rolled up half way or even 2/3rd?

I have to say, I have always been a navigator and routing guy. My skipper (father) for 50 years was a great helmsman and knew enough about sails and trimming them, that I never needed be concerned with that aspect. But he is gone, and I need to learn this now.

I really love this forum, you all have been a great help.

 

Foolish

Super Anarchist
1,686
363
Victoria, BC
I don't know how Andrew Evans does it
Learn how to work the main sheet to twist off the top of the mainsail.  The Figaro skippers rarely (some say never) reef their mainsail, even in 50 knots of wind so I've been told.  The key is that they allow the top of the main to twist off.  So keep the traveler up, but ease the sheet to allow the top to fall off.  This is a very powerful way to sail, because by heading down a bit you have full sail, and heading up a bit you have 1/2 sail.  So keep your main sheet in hand and ease it the instant you feel a pull.  It was blowing 20 last night and I was doing this, even with my reefed main.

 

Wright Way

Member
414
200
7 ounce #1 rolled up half way or even 2/3rd
You will hate sailing like that, it won't point and off the wind it will be too baggy and will still over power in the gusts. You need flatter sails when it gets windy, twist them off to spill a bit if marginal.

You really need a 3 -4 size jib for windy days, Reefing the main after that will deal with pretty much anything, if your main is a bit baggy fix that too.

 
So keep the traveler up, but ease the sheet to allow the top to fall off. 
I was easing the sheet, perhaps not enough, would raising the boom help (more topping lift, less vang)? I also must reiterate, I should have reefed the mail. These "round the buoy" races are not for me, give me 635 NM between start and finish.

And Foolish, thanks for your book, I refer to it often.

You will hate sailing like that, it won't point and off the wind it will be too baggy and will still over power in the gusts. You need flatter sails when it gets windy, twist them off to spill a bit if marginal.

You really need a 3 -4 size jib for windy days, Reefing the main after that will deal with pretty much anything, if your main is a bit baggy fix that too.
You are saying I need the dyneema stay. Won't the rolled up #1 be a problem? I really don't want running back stays, so I have to go masthead. I can move the tack back a couple feet, but that means adding a bulkhead below. 

Also is there any problem with putting reef points in a #2 to get to the #3 and #4?

 

Wright Way

Member
414
200
I haven't sailed with a solent style rig so cant comment there, I think they make sense for longer distance sailing without going to expense of a cutter rig. Not sure about removable stay either.

Have seen reef points in a #2 to make a #3 on a race boat, should be way better than furling.

Changing your sail on the furler from a large to small to suit the expectations on the day is best performance wise, its a pain in the arse short handed. Hanked on sails do start to make sense pretty quick if you only got one stay up front.

I think for your set up looking into the removable stay idea for a heavy jib would be worth investigating, you need to find someone who has done and get their input.

 

longy

Overlord of Anarchy
6,056
807
San Diego
Rolling a genoa up more than 10-15% leaves you sailing with a potato sack for a sail. Leach & foot get very tight, draft increases, sail area moves way up the foil - all of which slow you down a lot. Even with a furler, if you're racing (esp upwind) you need to change the headsail to the right size for the day. And sailplan balance is very important also - with almost no jib and a full main that combo has a LOT of weather helm. Do NOT be afraid to reef the main -practice until you and the equipment can do it quickly/efficiently.

The Figaro & other single handed designs are built with very neutral sail plan balances, to make it easier for the autopilots to drive. They also have new, hi tec, sails designed to twist off & flatten.Almost certainly, yours' do not.

 

TalonF4U

Anarchist
713
29
Nevada
My boat has an inner forestay setup and a RF jib as well. Back when the RF genoa was my racing headsail (have now shifted to a "J1.5" with hanks and a reef point), I wouldn't roller-reef the sail going upwind for the aforementioned shape issues. The inner forestay with an 85% jib was a much better solution. I put a reef point on that one, too.

One caution is that you'll need to get some serious tension on the inner forestay to go upwind with a jib set from there. After some trial and error, I settled on a soft inner made of high tech 12 strand and rigged a 4:1 purchase at the bottom which I led aft to a clutch and a winch--easy to get the right tension like this. You'll need to ensure it terminates someplace with some structure. 

Experiment with mainsail reefs as well. I found that the single reef had dubious utility when I didn't have much weight on the rail, but when the "maybe it's time to reef" sense kicks in, going straight to the double added half a knot and made the boat much easier to handle. 

 

VeloceSailing

Member
103
13
Sweden
Learn how to work the main sheet to twist off the top of the mainsail.  The Figaro skippers rarely (some say never) reef their mainsail, even in 50 knots of wind so I've been told.  The key is that they allow the top of the main to twist off.  So keep the traveler up, but ease the sheet to allow the top to fall off.  This is a very powerful way to sail, because by heading down a bit you have full sail, and heading up a bit you have 1/2 sail.  So keep your main sheet in hand and ease it the instant you feel a pull.  It was blowing 20 last night and I was doing this, even with my reefed main.
You need to be afford a few mainsails though. Figaro sailors don't really have that problem. 

I have Genoa, medium and heavy jib and change them in spite of furling system. It works but it is a pain shorthanded and a nightmare solo although a GOOD autopilot helps. Next time I'll buy new headsails I'll go for hanks. Simple, it works and you kan easy reef your headsail

 
Furled sails have horrible shape, and don't work, they are just practical to store.

I would take a furling medium #1 and a  #2 on hanks on an removable inner stay.

For short-handed offshore racing I use a good laminate light/medium #1 on hanks and a strong dacron reefable #2, works well and avoid too many dance moves on the foredeck

 

El Borracho

Sam’s friend
6,248
2,328
Pacific Rim
You a racing, right?  So you only furl headsails when hoisting a downwind sail. Never for "reefing." You never try to go to windward with a furled second sail. That is a lazy cruiser thing.

For shorthanded I'd get the lightest practical (easiest to handle) #1 genoa available. Plan on lashing it to the foredeck. Maybe in a sausage. Use hanks.

 
I am going to put a dyneema stay aft of the fore stay with the 4 to 1 purchase.  I think that the easiest way is to put an angle iron (stainless steel) hooked underneath the cleats in the bow. Then have the dyneema stay and the clew hooked to that. Then have hanks and reef  put into the #2  or #3.  I also need to put another reef into the main (must be 55% according to Bermuda 1-2 rules). 

So:     1) Has anybody done this with the angle iron?
          2) Which size dyneema should I use?
          3) How many pounds of pressure can I expect?
          4) What kind of square foot ratio's should I shoot for between main and reefed genoa?

Forepeak.jpg

 

longy

Overlord of Anarchy
6,056
807
San Diego
Not very strong - there are only 4 5/16" (or 1/4"?) bolts attaching the cleats. For that span, the 'angle iron' has to be rather large, quite a tripping hazard, would take some serious fab work to get enuff metal under the center of the cleat. Much better would be attaching to the bulkhead at the aft end of the anchor locker. Carefully inspect this for attachment to hull & thickness of panel. With good planning, tackle could be under deck in locker. Somewhere "fuzzybaxter" has pics of this setup on his Pogo.

 

Chix & Dumpling

New member
31
14
Anacortes
Use hanks.
I removed the roller-furler on our GS 40 and switched both our #1 and #3 over to hanks.  Specifically for solo / short-handed work.  We keep the two headsails lashed to the lifelines on the bow.  When there is a headsail change I'm without a headsail for a couple minutes but the safety of releasing the halyard and knowing the sail will be retrievable is worth it.

It feels like the boat sails much better.  I can control the shape of the sails for a wider set of wind speeds.

J

 

crankcall

Super Anarchist
1,621
182
Toronto
S2 9.1 , won the Lake Ontario 300 a couple years in a row, in some horrible conditions. Its more like an inland sea than a lake sometimes. #1,#3 and some sort of #4/5 blade, two big reefs in the main. No staysail arrangement. Roller ruler taken off as its a liability shorthanded for a sail change in miserable conditions if your racing. 

 

trisail

Member
413
204
Good evening,

If you do change over to hanks, rig up a downhaul on your headsail halyard.

Tie a light line to the jib halyard snapshackle. The line passes through a small block next to the tack fitting and is led aft to the cockpit and a small cleat.

 When you hoist the headsail the line snakes up the forestay along the luff of the sail. When you have to drop the sail you throw off the halyard and pull down on the downhaul line. Then cleat off both halyard and downhaul. It snugs the headsail luff down onto the foredeck and keeps the sail out of trouble till you can make your way forward. It also keeps tension on the halyard to prevent it from riding up the forestay and snagging in the rigging.

Have fun!

 
G

Guest

Guest
+1 on hanks but the halyard downhaul is good in theory but not that useful and another line to deal with. Generally you will have a working jib that  suits the wind range in your area, if youre at the top end of that what you can do is have a second clew and tack put in and reef it. This is a pretty easy mod that saves a change, but you'll need a second set of sheets rigged but this is a very simple way to change gear especially if conditions are expected to change during the race.

 

longy

Overlord of Anarchy
6,056
807
San Diego
If you use a downhaul, use small dyneema & capture the line in every hank. Otherwise it's blowing about trying to tangle on hanks or anything else within reach

 

bridhb

Super Anarchist
3,267
893
Jax, FL
If you use a downhaul, use small dyneema & capture the line in every hank. Otherwise it's blowing about trying to tangle on hanks or anything else within reach
Never tried that with mine.  I have a 3/16" polyester braid line with a bronze spring hook and snap it over the headstay above the second from top hank.  It runs aft through the stanchion mounted leads formerly used by the roller furling to a cleat on the outside of the coaming.  I wrap it around a secondary winch when raising or lowering the headsail to keep a little tension on it and help control it.  After getting the sail up and luff tensioned, I just hand tension the down haul.  Have never had much of a problem with it tangling on anything.  If I have crew, I just don't use it.  Your method sounds more secure though.  Is the small dyneema line difficult to handle?  

 

crankcall

Super Anarchist
1,621
182
Toronto
I really like the down haul on a halyard idea, but trying to capture it in each hank would be a colossal pain in the arse would'nt it ? 

 
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