Snow Skiing 22/23

Son of a Sailor

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New York
Her public school has a 1130-3 instruction every thursday, comes with the season pass they all get until 7th grade. She has a good group of friends she skiis with too. they all have poles and are a bit older.

I spent much of my life skiing exactly when and where I wanted. Only interested in doing it with the family now.
Took my son skiing for the first time when he was five. After a few runs in a ski harness he was off and wanted poles. Seemed okay right off with them and he's never looked back. So much easier to teach them when young and there is no fear.
 

WCB

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Park City, UT
12" fresh past 36 hours. If I could just tell all these clients to fuck off...

Hitting the hill tomorrow AM to introduce the 7 year old to powder shots.

Question for you all: What is the best signal that kid is ready for poles?
There are so many adults skiing without poles these days...experienced skiers too. I like my poles too much though.

Since I'm in the thick of it teaching our 5yo to ski (it's his fourth season) we still don't have him using poles. If they can reliably turn and stop on their own and you don't have to be involved, then poles are fine. If you have to intervene in their skiing at all, poles are trouble for both of you.
 

MR.CLEAN

Moderator
There are so many adults skiing without poles these days...experienced skiers too. I like my poles too much though.

Since I'm in the thick of it teaching our 5yo to ski (it's his fourth season) we still don't have him using poles. If they can reliably turn and stop on their own and you don't have to be involved, then poles are fine. If you have to intervene in their skiing at all, poles are trouble for both of you.
Thanks for all the input. Ended up going alone for a couple hours today. Nice to have so many runs open, and there was still a foot of powder at the edges. Thighs burning.
 

nolatom

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New Orleans
Can't imagine no poles. But my ski resume is ancient, living in Louisiana for 40-some years (after growing up in Eastern Mass) has a way of doing that. A few years ago, I skiied Sierra at Tahoe, after at least 20 years hiatus. Could still get down the single Diamonds pretty well, double D were a bit much.

But my quads--my poor quads. Absolutely on fire, not easy to ignore. I proved it was still possible. Didn't leave me itching to go back, physically. My brain does miss it though, it thinks I could still ski Tucks again. Cruel.
 

WCB

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Park City, UT
Can't imagine no poles. But my ski resume is ancient, living in Louisiana for 40-some years (after growing up in Eastern Mass) has a way of doing that. A few years ago, I skiied Sierra at Tahoe, after at least 20 years hiatus. Could still get down the single Diamonds pretty well, double D were a bit much.

But my quads--my poor quads. Absolutely on fire, not easy to ignore. I proved it was still possible. Didn't leave me itching to go back, physically. My brain does miss it though, it thinks I could still ski Tucks again. Cruel.
A lot of younger skiers do it since they're skiing switch, sliding rails, hitting jumps...etc. What's surprising is the number of people who are just plain skiing without poles. It's kind of beyond my interest level but I get it.
 

Chris in Santa Cruz CA

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Thanks for all the input. Ended up going alone for a couple hours today. Nice to have so many runs open, and there was still a foot of powder at the edges. Thighs burning.
you know you worked your thighs when a day or so later you have to drop from a foot up onto the toilet seat or use the seat to lower yourself down

getting back up another issues, good problems to have!
 

Chris in Santa Cruz CA

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this is tragic stuff

our safety manager is a SAR volunteer in Colorado, rappelling out of helo's and shit like that to get folks or bodies evac'd out of the back country, his take is that false senses of security due to beacons and other safety gear along with social media have brought many more people to the back country

with that said, CMH and other companies like it are the last outfits that should have fatalities due to avalanche, just like the Everest tour companies, eventually the drive for money erodes safety and risk aversion and it happens
 

Fat Point Jack

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I punched up World Cup Skiing on Peacock yesterday. They had on a GS race 1 with no commentary. There wasn't much crowd noise and I have no idea what the announcer was saying.
I could really hear the skis on the hard pack.

Do they water the course, it looked icy?
 

Chris in Santa Cruz CA

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I punched up World Cup Skiing on Peacock yesterday. They had on a GS race 1 with no commentary. There wasn't much crowd noise and I have no idea what the announcer was saying.
I could really hear the skis on the hard pack.

Do they water the course, it looked icy?
yes they water tracks, also Peacock's coverage of world cup skiing is really terrible this year
 

Cruisin Loser

Super Anarchist
have fun, buy the kid a lesson and go skiing, the Instructors will be able to tell you :)

best investment my wife and I made early on with the kids was putting them in multi day ski school programs when we went up for vacations for a few years. We could not really afford it at the time but it’s worth every penny. They learn how to ski and have fun with other kids and you get to go skiing. Then when they are say 10-12 they ski better than you do and can ski anything you can.
My son hated ski lessons, at 8 YO he refused, saying he wanted to ski with me. Well, if you're going to ski with me, you're going to ski what I ski. I showed him how to make turns in the steeps, and Taos gets steep. That season he started doing double blacks and trees.

He actually became well known on the mountain. We'd hike the ridge to the chutes, me carrying both sets of skis. Much older guys would ask "what are you skiing Chris?"

He's 25 now, lived in Taos last winter, when I came up he carried my skis. :)
Fuuck me. I have a trip with CMH in about 2 weeks. Been skiing with them for over a decade. Biggest danger is usually tree wells and other clients getting stupid
 

Chris in Santa Cruz CA

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My son hated ski lessons, at 8 YO he refused, saying he wanted to ski with me. Well, if you're going to ski with me, you're going to ski what I ski. I showed him how to make turns in the steeps, and Taos gets steep. That season he started doing double blacks and trees.

He actually became well known on the mountain. We'd hike the ridge to the chutes, me carrying both sets of skis. Much older guys would ask "what are you skiing Chris?"

He's 25 now, lived in Taos last winter, when I came up he carried my skis. :)

Fuuck me. I have a trip with CMH in about 2 weeks. Been skiing with them for over a decade. Biggest danger is usually tree wells and other clients getting stupid
my SAR colleague says CO has the worst avalanche conditions in decades, four have died already and he says thats amazing cause usually they lose way more than that on average, guess word is getting out one way or the other
 

giegs

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this is tragic stuff

our safety manager is a SAR volunteer in Colorado, rappelling out of helo's and shit like that to get folks or bodies evac'd out of the back country, his take is that false senses of security due to beacons and other safety gear along with social media have brought many more people to the back country

with that said, CMH and other companies like it are the last outfits that should have fatalities due to avalanche, just like the Everest tour companies, eventually the drive for money erodes safety and risk aversion and it happens
It's the reality of turning high risk activities into a commodity. On the flip side, the training, information, and support that's available to groms is world class these days. It's easy to point to fatalities that happen in a structured setting as being the result of that structure, but you won't see the deaths that didn't happen.

I've yet to see any clear proof of overall incident rates or outcome severity increasing as a result of added safety tech. What I have seen is more discussion of those tools in incident narratives and after action reports. They're certainly involved in more mishaps, but there's more of them out there so that's not surprising. Combined with more user days, those high risk activities are always going to create a narrative impression of mitigation tools being associated with the outcomes they're meant to help prevent. You see a similar thing happen with assisted braking devices in climbing.

This is a really complex topic and one that the ski industry has bean taking the lead on for years now. I'm sure equipment-induced overconfidence is an issue on an individual incident basis, but I don't think it's an overall issue, or at least not a very big one. Of course none of that kind of academic musing changes the fact that it's always a tragedy when someone goes in. Things could always go differently if we knew the outcome ahead of time.
“Yet by assigning blame or pointing to specific causes we disregard the fact that the whole system only worked because everyone made approximate adjustments to their work.”
― Erik Hollnagel, The ETTO Principle: Efficiency-Thoroughness Trade-Off
 

Chris in Santa Cruz CA

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It's the reality of turning high risk activities into a commodity. On the flip side, the training, information, and support that's available to groms is world class these days. It's easy to point to fatalities that happen in a structured setting as being the result of that structure, but you won't see the deaths that didn't happen.

I've yet to see any clear proof of overall incident rates or outcome severity increasing as a result of added safety tech. What I have seen is more discussion of those tools in incident narratives and after action reports. They're certainly involved in more mishaps, but there's more of them out there so that's not surprising. Combined with more user days, those high risk activities are always going to create a narrative impression of mitigation tools being associated with the outcomes they're meant to help prevent. You see a similar thing happen with assisted braking devices in climbing.

This is a really complex topic and one that the ski industry has bean taking the lead on for years now. I'm sure equipment-induced overconfidence is an issue on an individual incident basis, but I don't think it's an overall issue, or at least not a very big one. Of course none of that kind of academic musing changes the fact that it's always a tragedy when someone goes in. Things could always go differently if we knew the outcome ahead of time.
Thanks for that perspective, will forward this to my buddy.
 

Chris in Santa Cruz CA

Super Anarchist
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It's the reality of turning high risk activities into a commodity. On the flip side, the training, information, and support that's available to groms is world class these days. It's easy to point to fatalities that happen in a structured setting as being the result of that structure, but you won't see the deaths that didn't happen.

I've yet to see any clear proof of overall incident rates or outcome severity increasing as a result of added safety tech. What I have seen is more discussion of those tools in incident narratives and after action reports. They're certainly involved in more mishaps, but there's more of them out there so that's not surprising. Combined with more user days, those high risk activities are always going to create a narrative impression of mitigation tools being associated with the outcomes they're meant to help prevent. You see a similar thing happen with assisted braking devices in climbing.

This is a really complex topic and one that the ski industry has bean taking the lead on for years now. I'm sure equipment-induced overconfidence is an issue on an individual incident basis, but I don't think it's an overall issue, or at least not a very big one. Of course none of that kind of academic musing changes the fact that it's always a tragedy when someone goes in. Things could always go differently if we knew the outcome ahead of time.
Yes, that "deaths that didn't happen" thing is a big one along with the "days doing the activity". Helmet use on the road and skiing etc comes to mind. At a high level brain injuries per days skied should be out there I would think going back enough time to be meaningful.
 

bmiller

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6,225
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Buena Vista, Colorado
Oh what joy, retired, living within an hours drive of a major ski area, (BV-PbVille-CM), lifetime season pass and no real serious responsibilities.

Just go when the weather, snow and crowds fit my mood. Today the weather was stellar, never waited more then a couple chairs, snow was great.

Home by 1530 to post stupid shit on SA. Life is good.
 
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