Snowden; In hindsight it looks clear he is/was a whistle blower

[Pertinacious Tom]

Snowden Mocks Media Coverage and says he's not a Russian spy nor an agent for aliens and does, in fact, exist.

“It’s not the smears that mystify me,” Snowden told me. “It’s that outlets report statements that the speakers themselves admit are sheer speculation.” Snowden went on to poke fun at the range of allegations that have been made against him in the media without intelligence officials providing some kind of factual basis: “ ‘We don’t know if he had help from aliens.’ ‘You know, I have serious questions about whether he really exists.’ ”


...

Snowden was adamant that he wants to help, not hurt, the United States. “Due to extraordinary planning involved, in nine months no one has credibly shown any harm to national security” from the revelations, he said, “nor any ill intent.” Moreover, he pointed out that “the President himself admitted both that changes are necessary and that he is certain the debate my actions started will make us stronger.”

“If any individual who objects to government policy can take it into their own hands to publicly disclose classified information, then we will not be able to keep our people safe, or conduct foreign policy,” Obama said on Friday. “Moreover, the sensational way in which these disclosures have come out has often shed more heat than light, while revealing methods to our adversaries that could impact our operations in ways that we may not fully understand for years to come.” And Obama told David Remnick, in an interview for The New Yorker, that the leaks “put people at risk” and that, in his view, the benefit of the debate Snowden generated “was not worth the damage done, because there was another way of doing it.”

What was that other way of doing it, I wonder?

 

[Mark K]

Doesn't look like a case of Russian agents turning him to me either. Looks like he fell into their laps in China and somebody had to make a snap decision. Those guys are like spiders who have to sit in a web their whole careers knowing that there is only a one in a hundred chance anything big will get tangled up in it.

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

The article said he was stuck because our government revoked his passport.

Because the Russians wouldn't let him fly to Cuba unless America said it was OK.

Ummm... they wouldn't? Seems like some might just take extraordinary actions in this case.

Speaking of which, did we really force down the Bolivian President's jet looking for Snowden?

 

[Mark K]

The article said he was stuck because our government revoked his passport.

Because the Russians wouldn't let him fly to Cuba unless America said it was OK.

Ummm... they wouldn't? Seems like some might just take extraordinary actions in this case.

Speaking of which, did we really force down the Bolivian President's jet looking for Snowden?

With the help of he EU ATC, at least, or they might have done it on their own. Obama wasn't kidding when he said some nations feigned surprise and outrage.

It's a sad tale. I suspect he is being honest when he says he can't see any way in which he has harmed US defenses too. Very sad tale. There are many signs he gave away control of the information he took and has thereby gave away his biggest and best bargaining chip. Tragic.

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

He released all the information he took in a most reckless fashion.

I'm still waiting for a cite for that, but I heard it on the internet, so it might be true.

 

[Mark K]

He released all the information he took in a most reckless fashion.

I'm still waiting for a cite for that, but I heard it on the internet, so it might be true.

I wrote suspect, and in regards to control of the information, and did not specify between reckless or naive. I won't ever be able to provide cites for the things you imagine I state.

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

I was trying to tweak JBSF and A Guy on the "reckless release" thing, Mark, not you.

 

[billy backstay]

It's kind of like the lamestream medias hard-on over the stolen credit card data, when in fact, they cannot name a single card holder who has lost one red cent. The NSA did the mission they were charged to do, all fully approved at every level of government. Not much to see here; so just move along until the next Snowmageddon, or other eyeball grabbing headline from the squawking heads on the 24/7 cable snooze..

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

Fully approved = found unconstitutional by a federal judge?

I want some of billy's drugs!

 

[Battlecheese]

With the help of he EU ATC, at least, or they might have done it on their own. Obama wasn't kidding when he said some nations feigned surprise and outrage.

If anyone can recognise feigned surprise and outrage it would be the US.

It's a sad tale. I suspect he is being honest when he says he can't see any way in which he has harmed US defenses too. Very sad tale. There are many signs he gave away control of the information he took and has thereby gave away his biggest and best bargaining chip. Tragic.

I suspect Mr Snowden would argue that the current activities are harmful for US defences in the long term too, and a violent upheaval of the status quo can only improve the situation.No matter how much you may dislike the immediate short-term consequences.

Tragic? If he kept his secrets as leverage, then his information would be vulnerable to suppression by simply killing him.

 

[billy backstay]

Fully approved = found unconstitutional by a federal judge?

I want some of billy's drugs!

Found unconstituional after having been fully approved by Congress and the White House..

Sorry, mate; I only have enough drugs for MOI...

 

[Mark K]

There are were ways around that. He screwed himself there.

The Russians may wish to be rid of him in a year. That's all they gave him so far, a one-year temporary asylum visa. His lawyer seems to be playing up the "death threat" angle. I think he sees the danger. Putin is crafty and will definitely want it all. There are ways to encourage Snowden to believe he must sing for his supper.

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

Fully approved = found unconstitutional by a federal judge?

I want some of billy's drugs!

Found unconstituional after having been fully approved by Congress and the White House..

Oh, I didn't realize that. That makes it all better then.

 

[A guy in the Chesapeake]

I was trying to tweak JBSF and A Guy on the "reckless release" thing, Mark, not you.

You're not gonna tweak me, Tom. I like you, we just have an honest difference of opinion on this matter. I think that your perspective is a bit myopic and insulated, and that's OK, I do understand why you feel the way you do.

Snowden's illegal disclosure is the epitome (look it up) of recklessness, as he had no way of knowing what the ramifications of his behavior would be, and decided to undertake that behavior anyway.

You can suggest all you want that because you got something YOU wanted from Snowden's actions, that they were justified. You, and the majority of the US populace, aren't well enough informed to even begin to understand the damage that's been done to our foreign collections capabilities. Remember that as you submit Snowden's canonization.

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

Engaging in illegal domestic mass data collection carries with it the risk that a whistleblower will come along. By the same definition of recklessness, allowing the tools for a turnkey police state to exist without public (or FISA court) knowledge is reckless. Someone might turn that key.

Snowden had no way of knowing all the ramifications, but he suspected and hoped for one: a conversation among the American people about how we should use new technologies on the American people. He got it. Yes, I'm glad he did.

I still haven't heard of another way it could come about. As I said, all "legitimate" channels tend to dead-end in a swamp. I posted in another thread about the end of another one:

The NSA review board came back with their findings. Mass data collection is illegal and should be ended.

This was not what the White House wanted to hear.

The White House on Thursday disputed the findings of an independent review board that said the National Security Agency's mass data collection program is illegal and should be ended, indicating the administration would not be taking that advice.

"We simply disagree with the board's analysis on the legality of the program," White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said.

He was responding to a scathing report from The Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board (PCLOB), which said the program ran afoul of the law on several fronts.

"The ... bulk telephone records program lacks a viable legal foundation," the board's report said, adding that it raises "serious threats to privacy and civil liberties" and has "only limited value." The report, further, said the NSA should "purge" the files.

...

"The connections revealed by the extensive database of telephone records gathered under the program will necessarily include relationships established among individuals and groups for political, religious, and other expressive purposes," it said. "Compelled disclosure to the government of information revealing these associations can have a chilling effect on the exercise of First Amendment rights."

The panel added that the program "implicates constitutional concerns under the First and Fourth Amendments."

Who needs a review board when the President is a constitutional law professor?

 

[billy backstay]

Fully approved = found unconstitutional by a federal judge?

I want some of billy's drugs!

Found unconstituional after having been fully approved by Congress and the White House..

Oh, I didn't realize that. That makes it all better then.

No it doesn't make it better, just like realizing that Eugenics was wrong doesn't make it go away from history.

 

[Mark K]

There are were ways around that. He screwed himself there.

The Russians may wish to be rid of him in a year. That's all they gave him so far, a one-year temporary asylum visa. His lawyer seems to be playing up the "death threat" angle. I think he sees the danger. Putin is crafty and will definitely want it all. There are ways to encourage Snowden to believe he must sing for his supper.

Just saw the Russian government announced (through a lower, but still elected, official) they will extend his visa past the one year. It maybe that Russia's version of a legislature currently debating that may have prompted some of the recent public comments from both sides.

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

New Republic hit piece on Snowden was "heavily lifted" from other articles

 

[2slow]

Anyone else here (besides Tom) have a big problem with Obama's speech? I did not like how BHO said we would no longer listen in on allied leaders (something constitutional) but would continue monitoring Americans internet, phone etc (unconstitutional use of govt. power). Thanks Obama!

Different topic but;

Was congress correct in not having Clapper prosecuted for perjury?

 

[Mark K]

Anyone else here (besides Tom) have a big problem with Obama's speech? I did not like how BHO said we would no longer listen in on allied leaders (something constitutional) but would continue monitoring Americans internet, phone etc (unconstitutional use of govt. power). Thanks Obama!

Different topic but;

Was congress correct in not having Clapper prosecuted for perjury?

I believe he feels the current use of it is legal, as we currently interpret the law, post-Patriot Act anyway.

I don't think he should face trial for perjury myself. He was dealing with conflicting oaths. However, since he is now useless to explain the IC's positions and actions to the public he should be replaced, at minimum. At his age he would do well by retiring.