Snowflakes and sailing

[Lex Teredo]

This ain't the Opti fleet.  I don't worry about sheltering my teen from rough language while racing.  That said, on my boat, we don't communicate profanely very often while racing and handling the boat, although we're plenty profane chatting over beers.  It's about keeping the temperature low when events get heated, as I see it.   There's a difference between an F-bomb dropped with a light heart and one dropped with scathing intent.  Grownups can handle it.

A couple of the local classes, OTOH... there is one well attended class that has 3-4 dickheads driving their boats, and holy shit, are their windward marks and starts fun to listen to, from a distance.  Apparently that's their class culture, never heard any of them gripe about it, though the rest of us get a laugh out of it.  

Then there's this one guy in another very large class that is a little fractious, but jeeeeebus, this guy stands out as a screamer.  Dude's hit a couple boats pretty hard over the last few years (not just loud bang hard but insurance claim hard) and occasionally pulls a dangerous maneuver mid-race.  With lots of hollering.  Last weekend we were close to a mile away from him in a drifter, and you could hear this skipper screaming.  My crew hears it, looks at me, and my wife goes, "Is that ________ on the SV _____?"  We all knew exactly who was having the meltdown.  This fucktard might have been yelling at other boats, more likely it was at his own crew.  Should he be punished by Rule 69?  Naaaah.  His actual punishment is social.  I've never seen anybody just walk up to him and talk at a regatta party. He's being appropriately punished as far as I'm concerned.   

Sailboat racing is a small world.  Treat others as you'd like to be treated and don't invoke Rule 69 for the little shit.

 

[AJ Oliver]

This one drives me wild . .  "knowingly infringing a rule with intent to gain an unfair advantage" 

the scenario in which an experienced sailor calls what they know is a phony rule on a newbie sailor . . 

and then goes back to the bar and brags about it openly. 

[sound of boiling blood] 

 

[Guest]

Have you ever done any other kind of racing GB?   Not bustin' your stones, but, any competitive endeavor where someone's invested years of effort and more $$ than could ever be prudent in the pursuit of a win/record is very emotionally invested in that pursuit, and when something f*cks it up?  Coarse language is quite normal.  

Its a culture thing, in yachting you have a lot of weekend warriors who are about 30% rule aware but think they know everything, there is a lot of testosterone and bullshit flying around and for some getting onto a yacht gives them license to play out their power trips in a safe environment. For those that dont feel like being abused by fuckwits, they can enter the culture war and go full 69. For the rest of us we dont really give a shit and the interactions usually go something like this;

Come up 

you have no rights

Come up, you have to give us room

no overlap

we are overlapped outside two boat lengths , come up, windward boat keep clear.

you CANT come up no rights sail your proper course

read your fucking rule book,  it's our proper course, come up or we will hit you

Fuck off you have no idea

Fuck you, (turning to helm) just hit him, go up and hit that fuckwit

CONTACT

Fuck off Protest

Protest

Do your turns, do your fucking turns.....

As i said its a culture thing, but as you mature in racing its far more classy and stylish to not swear, say very little and use the protest room if required. What happens is that you get a reputation that you know the rules, that you are fair but you wont be bullied and guess what you have less and less aggressive situations to deal with because people behave around you. However if you push the boundaries then expect abuse

 

[basketcase]

what sports do you do ?

Unlike you, im pretty sure clean sails.

 

[SteveC]

Fuck you, (turning to helm) just hit him, go up and hit that fuckwit

CONTACT

Fuck off Protest

I remember the days when that was SOP. Nowadays, avoiding contact is more important (room and opportunity) and makes protests more all the more difficult to prove.

 

[ScowLover]

This one drives me wild . .  "knowingly infringing a rule with intent to gain an unfair advantage" 

the scenario in which an experienced sailor calls what they know is a phony rule on a newbie sailor . . 

and then goes back to the bar and brags about it openly. 

[sound of boiling blood] 

World Sailing Case 47 deals with this specifically. 

 

[SteveC]

I'm actually heartened by the split in opinion in the thread. I'm soundly in the camp that you need to have a thick skin and be able to let verbal insults go like water off a ducks back.

I'm also of the opinion that what happens on the water (as far as this thread subject is concerned / bit of heated shouting) is forgiven or at least reduced to friendly banter in the bar afterwards and we all have a laugh about it.

I fully accept the POV that the sport maybe needs less cussing, and maybe R69 can sort it, however, I cannot condone the use of the rule to enable frivolous reports just because the reporter has had a bad day and wants to penalize a competitor by any means possible..

 

[comcrudesgru8]

bill clinton left the white house 16 million in debt from fighting protests....or so he says......any quasi court proceeding is corrupt.....court proceedings as well.....its human nature.

 

[Somebody Else]

...my 8th grade lacrosse coach yelled at us

Oh. Lacrosse, eh?

   

 

[Somebody Else]

Some people barge, foul, hit buoys or other boats and continue on. Some people don't.

I had a college coach who claimed he broke the rules all the time -- windward/leeward, port/starboard, room at marks and starting, etc. -- saying, "Nobody ever protests, so..."

Then there is the quote attributed to Blackaller: "The best part about winning by cheating is it's like you win twice!"

 

[Svanen]

An accurate list for Rule 69 infractions.  Note that being a loudmouth asshole yeller on the racecourse  is not included.  If it were, 1/3 of the fleets I'm now in would have several rule 69 protests every race.  Some people have coprolalia and can't help themselves.

Have to disagree with the above.

Being a profane loudmouth who yells at other boats is arguably covered by one of the examples given in Case #138 (although omitted by ScowLover in Post #8): "bullying, discriminatory behaviour and intimidation";



In any event, Case 138 expressly says: "the following actions should be considered as examples of misconduct, but they are not exclusive examples and this is not a definitive list".



The fact that certain fleets don't allege R.69 for chronic swearing means that their tolerance level is relatively high. It doesn't mean that misconduct wouldn't be found in appropriate circumstances, if and when someone - remember, it doesn't have to be a competitor - chooses to report a R.69 incident. 

Finally, coprolalia is a very rare symptom of neurological disorders. It in no way excuses deliberate swearing by healthy adults who are perfectly capable of controlling themselves.

 

[Svanen]

Being offended...a must watch...

Related video:

 

[sunseeker]

I had a college coach who claimed he broke the rules all the time -- windward/leeward, port/starboard, room at marks and starting, etc. -- saying, "Nobody ever protests, so..."

Then there is the quote attributed to Blackaller: "The best part about winning by cheating is it's like you win twice!"

Buddy Melges. “Sportsmanship is just cheatin’ fair”

 

[trimfast]

Oh. Lacrosse, eh?

  View attachment 272514   View attachment 272513

Dude, lacrosse is all over the country at this point. It’s no longer stodgy like those pictures. While it may have started there, it’s mainstream now.

 

[Svanen]

I had a college coach who claimed he broke the rules all the time -- windward/leeward, port/starboard, room at marks and starting, etc. -- saying, "Nobody ever protests, so..."

What a jerk ... exactly the sort of person who has no business coaching anyone about anything.

Perhaps this is an opportune time to reflect upon the RRS' Basic Principles, specifically Sportsmanship and the Rules:

Competitors in the sport of sailing are governed by body of rules that they are expected to follow and enforce. A fundamental principle of sportsmanship is that when competitors break a rule they will promptly take a penalty, which may be to retire.

 

[VWAP]

Not sure why the fuck this is so difficult

If you say fuck you to a competitor  you do a 1/4 penalty turn.

If you sat fuck you and include their mother you do 1/2 penalty turn .

If you include asshole then 3/4 penalty turn. 

If you say any of the below  to someone under 16 then you double each penalty 

If you say any of the below to the arrogant parent of an out of control kid then no penalty 

 

[OutofOffice]

Not sure why the fuck this is so difficult

If you say fuck you to a competitor  you do a 1/4 penalty turn.

If you sat fuck you and include their mother you do 1/2 penalty turn .

If you include asshole then 3/4 penalty turn. 

If you say any of the below  to someone under 16 then you double each penalty 

If you say any of the below to the arrogant parent of an out of control kid then no penalty 

We need more curse words. That’s only 540 degrees...

 

[Brass]

However, no matter how you slice it, an "Organizing Authority" that puts on an event should probably not be allowed to exclude an otherwise-eligible competitor from competing in its events without a formal hearing.

As long as they do it before the first race, that's exactly what rule 76.1 permits the OA to do.  See the discussion in this thread

On the other hand, how does Ed think clubs should try to control misconduct by intoxicated sailors? St. Francis has employees who give out cards asking sailors to remove their hats in the clubhouse, but I'd bet they'd kick you out if you grope the commodore's wife or his teenage daughter, and the boat you are on might get kicked out if it happens during a regatta.

Once a boat has started in the first race, this is what rule 69 is there to do.  It would be an improper action for the club/OA to deny a competitor access to or use of their facilities so as to prevent them from racing, but a rule 69 hearing can exclude the competitor from the event and the venue (rule 69.2( h)(3)). 

 

[sshow bob]

Are we really arguing about whether or not its acceptable to be malicious?  I do not have the right to mistreat you; and, you do not have the right to mistreat me. I have never filed a Rule 69 against anyone, and don't anticipate doing so, but I am amazed that anyone would argue that when someone is offended by the malice or anger of another person, it is the offended person who is in the wrong.  You have every right to be angry or malicious.  I have every right not to want to deal with you if you cannot behave with decorum.  What happened to basic manners?


“Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”



― Kurt Vonnegut

 

[Guest]

If you cant handle been told to fuck off in yachting, you probably need to take up sewing. It really only becomes an issue if it gets personal. When a competitor on port wrecks your boat you are allowed to say whatever you like btw