Socialism/capitalism

[Not for nothing]

I wanted to start a forum on socialism/capitalism, but then I read this,
there are many degrees of Socialism and Capitalism It's not a cut and dry issue, for me I would say I'm 50/50, the socialist part, Social Security, Medicare VA Benefits, The Capitalist part, stock/bonds, bank loans/mortgage, pension, healthcare and life Insurance from a company. What are you?

So, I read this article from a CEO from Whole foods, a capitals pig, why I say that, My wife does the food shopping and tried the store, the look and her face as she left empty handed was priceless. She had nothing good to say about the store, Food quality fair, limited brands and definitely overpriced, and the staff wasn't helpful. She said she would never shop there again. Just another greedy asshole, that was never taught to share!

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[Olsonist]

I like both. Both have been very good to me.

 

[Rain Man]

Ah, another socialism vs. capitalism thread topic. How refreshing, kind of like a PHRF vs. every other rating system thread. There are many parallels, including among many a complete lack of understanding of what it is and how it works.

 

[giegs]

Corporate authority from a distance has a lot less credibility with the younger folks. He's not struggling with the influence of socialism. He's struggling with a dated corporate model and an unwillingness to increase the agency of workers at the sharp end of the business. Long term this is a disservice to the shareholders he serves and undermines future growth potential.

You'd think a self professed libertarian would be more aware of these authoritarian impulses.

 

[Not for nothing]

complete lack of understanding of what it is and how it works.

so, what your understanding of what it is and now does it work.?
I think as stated neither 100% of 1 or the other works, but a compromise of both to make society work.

 

[Ease the sheet.]

I've a pretty narrow view on this.

It's all about the means and benefits of production.

I think that the wider the means and benefits are distributed, the better.

 

[3to1]

talk about 'environmental' scenarios and suddenly capitalism do look like fuckin' shit (worse than, actually)...
it has to be said that's the overriding metric by default a vast majority of the time.
it can't be all 'take', but it is, thus the vile fkn' state things are currently in.

 

[Rain Man]

so, what your understanding of what it is and now does it work.?
I think as stated neither 100% of 1 or the other works, but a compromise of both to make society work.

Socialism - government ownership of the means of production - government bureaucrats run everything and generally fuck things up due to incompetence and lack of accountability.

Capitalism - private ownership of the means of production - private owners (capitalists) run everything and generally fuck things up due to greed and lack of accountability.

As pointed out, neither works in its pure form. A well-managed society has social programs which are government managed and provide healthy, socially well-adjusted and educated workers. Capitalists operate large and small companies to the benefit of themselves and society using the workers provided by the social programs. If they stop benefitting society, they are regulated by government or unions until they do so.

 

[d'ranger]

The countries where happiness is rated high almost always have a democratic socialist setup - regulated capitalism and social programs as needed (like healthcare and education). In the US we have been indoctrinated to believe we each have our own destiny and make our own way in life and the very wealthy are just better than the rest of us and we are better than the poor and homeless.
Jesus wants you to be rich and sending him $$ makes that happen. And stuff.

 

[Hard On The Wind]

Under capitalism and socialism shit still happens.

 

[ShortForBob]

Asking if one is a socialist or a capitalist is akin to asking if one is a decent human being or an arsehole.
A Buddhist or a Catholic.
Many shades in between.
One might fervently agree that we should be nice to one another and then evict their tenants for two months rent arrears.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"

Is a perfectly reasonable position and only an arsehole would disagree.
But what IS ones ability? what ARE ones needs?

There lies the bone of contention and the root of animosity between the two.

 

[slug zitski]

I wanted to start a forum on socialism/capitalism, but then I read this,
there are many degrees of Socialism and Capitalism It's not a cut and dry issue, for me I would say I'm 50/50, the socialist part, Social Security, Medicare VA Benefits, The Capitalist part, stock/bonds, bank loans/mortgage, pension, healthcare and life Insurance from a company. What are you?

So, I read this article from a CEO from Whole foods, a capitals pig, why I say that, My wife does the food shopping and tried the store, the look and her face as she left empty handed was priceless. She had nothing good to say about the store, Food quality fair, limited brands and definitely overpriced, and the staff wasn't helpful. She said she would never shop there again. Just another greedy asshole, that was never taught to share!

MSN

www.msn.com

If you don’t like the products and services ...dont patronize that store , take your business elsewhere

This is how capitalism works

 

[ShortForBob]

If you don’t like the products and services ...dont patronize that store , take your business elsewhere

This is how capitalism works

It used to work like that.
Have you tried to buy any home goods that allow any variety lately?
Go to a bedding store. "Oh you have a 1900 style base and headboard! sorry, all our new mattress are designed to go with our bases" ..go to another store? exactly the same designs.
Go to a kitchen cabinet store, yes..we have a variety of modules and colours..choose between grey, dark grey, brown or beige and if your kitchen was not built to metric dimensions? tough.
Go to buy a new lounge suit? you get a choice of a box with fat legs and skinny arms or a fat couch.

the last 10 years I feel like our choices have been channeled into some sort of economic hierarchy. You get custom made or what they limit you to.

You want something different, you pay through the nose.

It's like Brave New World where the Alpha's get a little better than the Beta's and the Eppys get a uniform.

Personal taste? they'll train us to like what they'll make. as cheaply and shoddy as possible

 

[slug zitski]

It used to work like that.
Have you tried to buy any home goods that allow any variety lately?
Go to a bedding store. "Oh you have a 1900 style base and headboard! sorry, all our new mattress are designed to go with our bases" ..go to another store? exactly the same designs.
Go to a kitchen cabinet store, yes..we have a variety of modules and colours..choose between grey, dark grey, brown or beige and if your kitchen was not built to metric dimensions? tough.
Go to buy a new lounge suit? you get a choice of a box with fat legs and skinny arms or a fat couch.

the last 10 years I feel like our choices have been channeled into some sort of economic hierarchy. You get custom made or what they limit you to.

You want something different, you pay through the nose.

It's like Brave New World where the Alpha's get a little better than the Beta's and the Eppys get a uniform.

Personal taste? they'll train us to like what they'll make. as cheaply and shoddy as possible

All forms of economic organization have flaws

Socialism is one big flaw. Failure

Best to stick with capitalism then be vigilant for abuse

 

[ShortForBob]

All forms of economic organization have flaws

Socialism is one big flaw. Failure

Best to stick with capitalism then be vigilant for abuse

Too late.
When people like Bezos can turn industrial relations back to the 19th Century and Elon Muck can literally put chains of fake stars in our sky because he can and courts and the law are out of reach to right the wronged , capitalism has become communism and "socialism" some vague, once upon a time dream.
We are doomed to be sorted and squeezed.

 

[mikewof]

It is easy to not spend a dime at Whole Foods, the CEO was anti-union even before Amazon bought him out. It is a good bit more difficult to not spend money at Amazon, but it is easy to cancel your Prime membership.

It is a possible to buy one's food from an employee-owned market like Publix or HyVee, or at least a union shop like Kroger or Safeway/Albertsons.

After that, the egg-headedness barely matters, because we have spent our hard-earned cash in support of people like us, rather than abusive billionaires.

 

[mikewof]

Too late.
When people like Bezos can turn industrial relations back to the 19th Century and Elon Muck can literally put chains of fake stars in our sky because he can and courts and the law are out of reach to right the wronged , capitalism has become communism and "socialism" some vague, once upon a time dream.
We are doomed to be sorted and squeezed.

Our cash supports whom we decide we are willing to support. We can undo kings and sailors, depending on the choices we make each day.

 

[ShortForBob]

It is easy to not spend a dime at Whole Foods, the CEO was anti-union even before Amazon bought him out. It is a good bit more difficult to not spend money at Amazon, but it is easy to cancel your Prime membership.

It is a possible to buy one's food from an employee-owned market like Publix or HyVee, or at least a union shop like Kroger or Safeway/Albertsons.

After that, the egg-headedness barely matters, because we have spent our hard-earned cash in support of people like us, rather than abusive billionaires.

No it isn't. I don't shop on line. at all. ever.
I have a simple philosophy. If you cant get what you want at your local shops, just get what you need.
And I rarely go to chain stores or malls.

 

[mikewof]

No it isn't. I don't shop on line. at all. ever.
I have a simple philosophy. If you cant get what you want at your local shops, just get what you need.
And I rarely go to chain stores or malls.

Australia may be a logistic backwater. But in North America, that stuff at our local shops now often goes through Amazon logistic networks, from potatoes to wifi speakers to replacement crankshafts. And those local shops often use Amazon back-end computing, likely without even knowing it.

We can't control that, but we can cancel our Prime membership. Prime is the corporate kingmaker, it is the linchpin. The rest are there to support Prime.

 

[ShortForBob]

Our cash supports whom we decide we are willing to support. We can undo kings and sailors, depending on the choices we make each day.

Somewhat true, but as I said before, we are unwittingly and slowly being trained as to what our needs are. Would one really choose a couch like this if we weren't told we liked it?

or this

or this

or this

4 couches, 4 different manufactures.
great choice.
Now couch choice may be a trivial example, but the same thing is everywhere. crappy shows from netflix "chosen" for us by a matrix?
We are being subtly forced to conform. Resistance is getting to be exhausting.
Fucking internet "influencers" hey we even admire these people and "follow" them. (well not personally)
I only noticed how bad it was in "the modern world" when living on a small island for months.
7 different tiny minimarkets with limited choice in each, but infinitely more brand variety.

Why? Capitalism. It's forced it individual manufacturer out of the game. And we did it to ourselves.
Fortunately for my sanity, there's always OP shops and hard rubbish.