SOL Sailing???

WCB

Super Anarchist
4,517
910
Park City, UT
Sol is the boat design of the largest importer of Sunfish sailboats in the US. There must a back story of why they are releasing a model of boat that they control the market on.
I found that out this morning talking to Bob from the AZYC. He was picking up @WestCoast 's demo Melges 15 and he mentioned what the origin of the SOL was, from the Sunfish Direct. He said that due to the difficulty of getting Sunfish, they may want to use the SOL for future Worlds.

For those that panned the ILCA class and what they had to do to wrestle control away from LP to save their class, here you have the exact same situation in the Sunfish class. Instead of wrestling molds away from the builder, which I don't think that they have any legal recourse for, they had to knock off the boat to a large degree to keep the class alive. Again, LP screws up.
 

Xeon

Super Anarchist
1,113
635
England
I found that out this morning talking to Bob from the AZYC. He was picking up @WestCoast 's demo Melges 15 and he mentioned what the origin of the SOL was, from the Sunfish Direct. He said that due to the difficulty of getting Sunfish, they may want to use the SOL for future Worlds.

For those that panned the ILCA class and what they had to do to wrestle control away from LP to save their class, here you have the exact same situation in the Sunfish class. Instead of wrestling molds away from the builder, which I don't think that they have any legal recourse for, they had to knock off the boat to a large degree to keep the class alive. Again, LP screws up.
I guessed this was the way this boat had come to the market . I wish it the best and hope it’s dotted the I s and crossed the T s legally. Because if the Sunfish is a a true SMOD is it possible for another manufacturer to use the same hull shape ? I ask is I don’t know the answer .
 

Dave Clark

Anarchist
914
872
Rhode Island
I guessed this was the way this boat had come to the market . I wish it the best and hope it’s dotted the I s and crossed the T s legally. Because if the Sunfish is a a true SMOD is it possible for another manufacturer to use the same hull shape ? I ask is I don’t know the answer .
They tried decently hard to sue us last year and our boat is different on every single dimension.

DRC
 

tillerman

Super Anarchist
5,668
2,821
Rhode Island
I found that out this morning talking to Bob from the AZYC. He was picking up @WestCoast 's demo Melges 15 and he mentioned what the origin of the SOL was, from the Sunfish Direct. He said that due to the difficulty of getting Sunfish, they may want to use the SOL for future Worlds.

For those that panned the ILCA class and what they had to do to wrestle control away from LP to save their class, here you have the exact same situation in the Sunfish class. Instead of wrestling molds away from the builder, which I don't think that they have any legal recourse for, they had to knock off the boat to a large degree to keep the class alive. Again, LP screws up.
Is the International Sunfish Class Association part of this plan to to use the SOL for future Worlds? Or will we see a SOL Worlds and a Sunfish Worlds?
 

ILYAScow

Member
360
28
Sunfish direct is the biggest dealer of Sunfish correct. How you pull off and still keep your dealer rights and survive litigation while trying to promote two classes that might be one in the same. Just WOW.
 
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WCB

Super Anarchist
4,517
910
Park City, UT
I guessed this was the way this boat had come to the market . I wish it the best and hope it’s dotted the I s and crossed the T s legally. Because if the Sunfish is a a true SMOD is it possible for another manufacturer to use the same hull shape ? I ask is I don’t know the answer .
From a design protection perspective, I expect that the massive deck difference would prevent any judge or jury from siding with Laser Performance.
 

WCB

Super Anarchist
4,517
910
Park City, UT
Sunfish direct is the biggest dealer of Sunfish correct. How you pull off and still keep your dealer rights and survive litigation why trying to promote two classes that might be one in the same. Just WOW.
My guess is that they are unable to get new Sunfish and this is a way to salvage their business. I agree with you.
 

ILYAScow

Member
360
28
From a design protection perspective, I expect that the massive deck difference would prevent any judge or jury from siding with Laser Performance.
That only works if you are trying to make your class or product correct? You can't then drag in the Sunfish crowd and say it is the same. Can't have cake and eat it too.
 

Dave Clark

Anarchist
914
872
Rhode Island
From a design protection perspective, I expect that the massive deck difference would prevent any judge or jury from siding with Laser Performance.
Ever so dutifully, we did a lot of legal research before releasing a modern boardboat for this specific reason. So, I ended up being a modest factotem on the IP law around it. https://www.tradeonlytoday.com/colu...ss-closes-loophole-in-anti-hull-splashing-law. If you've kept up on the law, a different deck was a viable defense, but it hasn't been for more than a decade. Conveniently, this forces compliant builders to integrate improvements to hull designs.


DRC
 

Xeon

Super Anarchist
1,113
635
England
I know I have not been the most supporting person on this forum about the type of boat ( mostly in jest ) .
BUT I really hope this project ( and the Rocket too) are successful. People that want to sail this type of boat deserve manufacturers that want to service and support this market and supply them with boats and equipment.
Something history tells us , both with the Laser and the Sunfish , LP has not been the best at doing .
 

ortegakid

Super Anarchist
2,605
162
Whitesboro,TEXAS
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Alan Crawford

Super Anarchist
1,390
658
Bozeman, Montana
While having zero IP experience in the world of boat building, my IP experience shows cases where deeper pockets are trying to scare away the new, more innovative, fully legal competition (without deep pockets) before the new competition even has a chance. A lot of these deep pocket claims are meritless. New entrants need to plan accordingly (see post above by DRC).

While access to lower cost new boats could be viewed as a way to regain market share from the roto-molded kayaks and inflatable SUP's, I contend that easy access to water in many parts of the US for small sailboats is the bigger challenge.

Do we need to start a new thread: Gutting the 'Fish?
 

tillerman

Super Anarchist
5,668
2,821
Rhode Island
Hypothetically speaking... if a friend were thinking of buying a new Sunfish to compete in local, regional and national events, should they buy
1. a new LP Sunfish from Sunfish Direct (are they actually available?)
2. an ex-charter boat from the recent Sunfish Worlds in Italy (which is being offered by a local dealer) or
3. a second-hand Vanguard built Sunfish (1997-2007 I think) in great condition if they can find one?
 
Hypothetically speaking... if a friend were thinking of buying a new Sunfish to compete in local, regional and national events, should they buy
1. a new LP Sunfish from Sunfish Direct (are they actually available?)
2. an ex-charter boat from the recent Sunfish Worlds in Italy (which is being offered by a local dealer) or
3. a second-hand Vanguard built Sunfish (1997-2007 I think) in great condition if they can find one?
In terms of performance I don't think it much matters, but in terms of expedience I would recommend 3, then 2, then 1. In terms of value I would recommend rehabbing a reasonably dry older hull acquired on the cheap (in the local Sunfish fleet there's a guy who sails a 50 year old boat consistently finishing in the top 3).
 

tillerman

Super Anarchist
5,668
2,821
Rhode Island
In terms of performance I don't think it much matters, but in terms of expedience I would recommend 3, then 2, then 1. In terms of value I would recommend rehabbing a reasonably dry older hull acquired on the cheap (in the local Sunfish fleet there's a guy who sails a 50 year old boat consistently finishing in the top 3).
Thanks. My friend isn't looking for a performance difference. More concerned about availability and quality -i.e. doesn't leak and stuff doesn't break the first time they sail it.
 




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