Solar panel anarchy

[kent_island_sailor]

I got the panel from FleaBay. I am not sure what a "marinized" panel would look like, they are all designed to be mounted outside. I have no permanent mount for it, it is on the end of a 40 foot cord and I move it around different places to catch the sun.

K_I_S- Is your panel "marinized" or are you just using a residential house panel? What kind is it?

I'll assume that you're hanging it off the aft pulpit? Did you fab the brackertry?

 

[sharkbait1]

I got the panel from FleaBay. I am not sure what a "marinized" panel would look like, they are all designed to be mounted outside. I have no permanent mount for it, it is on the end of a 40 foot cord and I move it around different places to catch the sun.

K_I_S- Is your panel "marinized" or are you just using a residential house panel? What kind is it?

I'll assume that you're hanging it off the aft pulpit? Did you fab the brackertry?

I dont think there are specific designs for marine use. I have a kyocera 130/135 hanging off the back of my boat. Works fine.

 

[robalex117]

I agree with everything two have said. One comment I have is I think the sailing community should get away from talking in amp hours and just move to power or (kwh) for everything.

The rest of the world is already there. Automotive electric battery packs and solar arrays are always quoted in actual power, not amp hours.

Especially confusing for the "dummies" when in the same post we talk about watts for solar arrays and amp hours for batteries. I use the word dummies tongue and cheek but really there is a reason the rest of the world just uses watts or kwh as the measurement.

Curious what everybody things about this?

Rob

The problem with these sorts of threads is there's too many experts and knowledgeable people out there. It becomes confusing for dummies.

Just do it, put more on than you think you need to cope with shading and degradation of the panels over time.

I repeat. said the electrical dummy, I put 400 watts on my boat ,flexible , lying flat. one Mpfhhh whatever controller capable of taking 500 w so it isn't stressed

the old lead acid batteries.

Freezer direct wired, extra freestanding fridge freezer. When we leave the boat the freezer stays on , it has been running for 4 months and needs defrosting.

When we're on the boat we run that extra fridge through the day to keep the booze cold, just got off it after a month on board, never need to start up in the morning to run the old compressor fridge. Lights , stereo, 2 led anchor lights all night. Shit I even use the anchor winch if I feel like it , and sail off anchor like the good ole days.

Having to run a motor for no other reason than a compressor fridge is a PIA. I hate it, Its noisy and a nuisance ...and I also firmly believe that my motor hours would be down by a quarter or so if it hadn't been used that way over its life. And all those at anchor motor hours are bad hours too, no load to speak of on the engine ,diesel 101.. run engine with load on.

Its a ketch so something is always shaded and its biased , for various reasons I have more to stbd than port.

I have one pic

dodger ones stuck down and back ones on the bimini just tied there for now . Thats going to be rebuilt so its temporary but I yam thinking I'll 'hinge' them so I can tilt the appropriate one on passage, make the most of the evening sun.



works like a dream.

We have lived aboard since 2009, cruising in the tropics mostly. We probably average 100 a.hr/day. consumption, but it is higher when at sea. We have 500 watts of solar panels on a stern arch (catamaran). Battery bank is ~450 a.hr. My wife is often sitting at a computer for 8 hrs/day when writing.

I would say we average 1 day per month when we have to run the engine for an hour or so. Basically when we have 3+ days of very overcast weather. Partial cloudy gives us enough power for the day. On sunny days we are often fully charged by noon.

In summary, solar works for us.

 

[bljones]

Don't overthink it.

Here's my experience. TIFWEIW.

We live aboard, from May thru October. No shorepower, no generator, small alternator. Loads- conventional nav lights, led cabin lighting, 2kw inverter for the occasional 110v need, small chartplotter, b&w fishfinder, ancient fixed mount vhf. Dometic Coolmatic reefer system was installed in august 2015- 4a draw, 30%ish duty cycle.

Charging system is (likely, to some here, appallingly) primitive- 3 40 watt solar panels mounted flat on the bimini, always partially shaded by the boom. i panel charging a single group 27 lead acid starting battery through it's own charge controller and 2 panels charging a single group 27 lead acid house battery through it's own charge controller.

Call it $500 invested in solar and batteries.

It works. The existing charging system was more than ample, prior to the reefer install, and still meets our needs after... but with little margin. Do we NEED more charging or storage capacity or faster more better charging?

No. Our system works. If it ever fails to keep up, an hour of motorsailing will top things up.

But... there's no room for expansion. Adding a windlass, more electronics or a larger inverter would put us past the brink.

So, this winter I pulled the trigger on a 100 watt flex panel to augment the current panels, and a bigger better charge controller. Next step is increasing the house bank capacity- either a quad of 6v golf cart batteies to replace the current battery, or a second group 27.

Call it another $500.

It's not state of the art, but it works...and really, isn't that all the end result we are all looking to achieve? I'm not sure investing $1500 in an MPPT controller and LiPO or AGM batteries would give me a better ROI than our current system.

 

[Ajax]

I got the panel from FleaBay. I am not sure what a "marinized" panel would look like, they are all designed to be mounted outside. I have no permanent mount for it, it is on the end of a 40 foot cord and I move it around different places to catch the sun.

K_I_S- Is your panel "marinized" or are you just using a residential house panel? What kind is it?

I'll assume that you're hanging it off the aft pulpit? Did you fab the brackertry?

Ok, cool. I had this vision that "marinized" solar panels would be constructed to deal with vibration and perhaps even more water-proofed than dirt-bound versions.

If many people are using ordinary panels, this opens up possibilities and reduces costs.

I'm looking to hang something from the aft pulpit while cruising, that is easily removable when racing. Right now, I have one of those 15w RV panels.

 

[kent_island_sailor]

IIRC, this is the one I got:

http://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Watts-Volts-Monocrystalline-Solar/dp/B00DVPPFDS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1454684235&sr=8-1&keywords=50+watt+solar+panel

and this

http://www.amazon.com/SunGuard-Charge-Controller-Regulator-Morningstar/dp/B000O3O0W2/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1454684311&sr=8-3&keywords=morningstar+solar

 

[Ajax]

Wow, not bad! Thanks! Smaller than I expected, which is good.

 

[toddster]

Wow... the shipping weight is less than the product weight. Must be that "alternative" magic at work.

Doesn't look 40 inches square.

 

[TQA]

Cheap non marinized panels will soon die in a marine environment, often in 18 months the connections turn to green goo.

Flexible panels do not seem to have a long life 3 years often sees them dieing.

My Kyoceras [ sold as suitable for marine use ] are at least 9 years old and still seem to be as good as they ever were.Mine are mounted on a rear arch and I can tilt them fore and aft. This gets at least 50 % extra output if I need it. Mostly I don't. 400 watts total in 3 panels. Blue Sky MPPT 2000E controller [ I have just had to replace it after 8 years ] 675 AH battery bank [ possibly overkill ].

 

[sailm8]

I bought two of these because they could be mounted on the bimini. Only weigh 4 pounds. http://www.amazon.com/HQST-Monocrystalline-Flexible-Solar-Panel/dp/B017OMTAV6/ref=pd_bia_nav_t_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=11H7PTBFBYCY2E5CZTWN

 

[kent_island_sailor]

My old 20 watt panel is doing fine and the new 50 watt as well. I just now dug out my well used 20 watt to look at it and all connections are good.

 

[Hobie Dog]

The system does have a solar off/on switch. Anybody know what that is for? I have always thought why would I want to turn it off so I leave it on all the time. Should I turn off the solar when running the engine as described above?

Do you have a power/battery monitor? If not that is the first thing to install. Victron Energy makes nice ones that are around $150.

With the power/battery monitor you can leave the solar on during bright sunlight and run your engine when you know that the batteries aren't full. See how much power the alternator is supplying to the batteries immediately and after 15 to 20 minutes and again after an hour. If the alternator supply drops quickly to a tiny number (well under 10A) then your alternator is likely being confused by the solar charger.

Here is a full test case:

* Charge to 100%

* Turn off the solar and all other chargers

* Run your fridge or other high current loads long enough to draw your batteries down to around 60% charge (low, but not so low that you'll hurt them). If you have a 150AH house bank this would mean drawing them by 60AH.

* Turn on solar and see how much power it is providing through the battery monitor. On my boat this would be around 6A in decent sunlight.

* Turn on the engine

* Record the AH being delivered to the batteries after 5 minutes (should be near the max output of your alternator, on my boat that is 50A)

* Record the AH being delivered to the batteries after 20 minutes (should still be near the max output of your alternator)

* Record the AH being delivered after an hour. At this point your batteries should be getting closer to full and the AH should be dropping, but still above 10.

If your alternator regulator also has indicators for waht stage it is in you can check that. My alternator regulator has 3 stages: bulk, (something I can't remember) and float, and with solar on it drops to float almost immediately.

If you alternator is confused by the solar it will quickly drop to the float stage and provide somewhere around 5A or less, which is barely a trickle. If your alternator ignores the solar then it should be putting out full power until the batteries are at least 90% charged.

I don't know how one would do a good job of managing house loads with solar without a good battery monitor, so a battery monitor is the first thing to install.

Yes I have a Link Pro Battery Monitor that is functioning.

Awesome post! Thank you so much! Once I get her back in the water I will run this test. But based on what I recall seeing when running the engine I think my alternator is confused by my solar. Thanks again!

Oh the middle stage is absorb so it goes bulk, absorb and then float. See I am not totally clueless. :lol:

There is also a Morning Star Monitor as well that I never really figured out how it worked or what it did. And then when I determined the "smart charger/inverter" was tripping the shore breaker I took it out of the loop, and since removed from the boat, the Morning Star Monitor went dead. Obviously it is wired someway through that inverter. The original OEM shore power battery charger works just fine for my needs so I have been using that with no problems.

Yes the boat had two shore power battery chargers and two battery monitors all in a 37' boat! Certainly not a KISS setup, thus why I am still figuring things out. Maybe just adding a second panel and using that on/off switch I will be in business?

 

[DrewR]

Cheap non marinized panels will soon die in a marine environment, often in 18 months the connections turn to green goo.

Flexible panels do not seem to have a long life 3 years often sees them dieing.

My Kyoceras [ sold as suitable for marine use ] are at least 9 years old and still seem to be as good as they ever were.Mine are mounted on a rear arch and I can tilt them fore and aft. This gets at least 50 % extra output if I need it. Mostly I don't. 400 watts total in 3 panels. Blue Sky MPPT 2000E controller [ I have just had to replace it after 8 years ] 675 AH battery bank [ possibly overkill ].

^^ +100. My 50 watt fleaBay Chinese masterpiece didn't last 1 season. Where the wire join the panel had holes in the plastic covering piece and it just fell off mid season, so I got 2 or 3 months, 18 would have been a gift. I wish I had taken pics of it before I tossed it. I did repair it but I couldn't rely on it. But it was CHEAP!

 

[ni·hil·ism]

Couple things I learned about solar panels...

It really really helps to put an ammeter before your charge controller, coming from the array to monitor the actual output. Opposed to what the charge controller is delivering to your batteries. Because of the different charge stages, you might be wondering why you are not getting more amps from the array. This only works in parallel so keep that in mind when you do your initial install.

Your panel may not have blocking diodes to prevent it from effecting the total output. Make sure if there is not a diode on the panel that you add one inline. There are MC4 connectors with them built in for this purpose. You only need one per panel on the negative bus.

The solar panel wires with built in MC4 connectors are crap. You can buy good MC4 DIY connectors and install them on Ancor Duplex wires. Ideally you would run all of your wires below to a terminal block in the engine compartment (or wherever your charge controller lives) but if you can't do that, at the very minimum run Duplex from the topsides to the charge controller so you know there is little voltage drop. Do your normal gauge calculation from the last chain link of MC4 connectors based on the potential max output of the array. If you have more money and time then make all of the wires to Duplex but keep the MC4 connection at the solar panel so you don't void your warranty, or wire directly with heat shrink butt connectors if you don't care. When I first bought my panels, I just assumed outdoor solar panel wires would work but then realized the final run to the charge controller was not the same as from the last link in the array. Go figure.

Currently I have all flexible panels; 300 watts fixed on the dodger and bimini, with two 100 watt panels I can put anywhere there is sun. You can be creative on rigging the panels. Secure them to lifelines tilted towards the sun, lay them on the deck, use them as hatch shades, or whatever. They are light, versatile, and stow flat under a cushion in the cabin. Just be careful of the wire run and don't over bend the panel or you can damage the PV silicon.

 

[Arcas]

Lived aboard for 8 months with 4x 85w panels and 400 ah capacity in the Bahamas. Never needed to run the engine and we had laptops and a fridge and watermaker. The peace and silence was great compared to the old way of a big diesel engine running for an hour. Also had to carry far less oil, fewer engine filters and parts - saved us a ton of time and cost in that alone. And redundancy... Panels are cheap and tough. Get more than you need. We did hard monos and mounted them on lifelines opening outboard. No shade and just put them down and secured them in over 20 kts...

 

[kent_island_sailor]

I must be having better luck with my Amazon sourced panels. One is about 5 years old and one is 2 and both have no issues whatsoever and no connection problems at all.

I did not attempt to use MC4 connectors, I added my own wire and am using a trolling motor plug and socket for the connection to the boat.

Keep in mind the rated max current and max power of the panels is at around *18 volts or more*. Unless you get a MPPT controller, you will never see 50 watts out of a 50 watt panel. 50 watts at 18 volts is 2.7 amps. If the PWM regulator is holding the voltage at 14, then that is 37.8 watts (14x2.7) in strong sun perfectly aimed. I commonly get less, around 2.0-2.3 or so if the sun is not straight overhead.

I may buy a MPPT regualor this year to get more output.

 

[trispirit]

This is our set up. Super simple supplies the whole boat and we've virtually sailed halfway around the world using solar to power the onboard electrics.

https://www.facebook.com/trimaranspirit/posts/533732493456969

 

[jack_sparrow]

This is our set up. Super simple supplies the whole boat and we've virtually sailed halfway around the world using solar to power the onboard electrics.

https://www.facebook.com/trimaranspirit/posts/533732493456969

Pretty neat setup... 550w top grade panels on the real estate of a tri and LFP batt storage. Tri what is your LFP aHr capacity by the way?

 

[trispirit]

Jack we have two 160ah LiPo's supplying power onboard supplied by these guys

http://www.ev-power.com.au

And for those that say they cost too much ours were $2,400 AUD as opposed to $1,800 AUD for top of the range Fullriver AGM's that gave the equivalent DOD.

This is our set up. Super simple supplies the whole boat and we've virtually sailed halfway around the world using solar to power the onboard electrics. https://www.facebook.com/trimaranspirit/posts/533732493456969

Pretty neat setup... 550w top grade panels on the real estate of a tri and LFP batt storage. Tri what is your LFP aHr capacity by the way?

 

[jack_sparrow]

Tri your lucky you didn't get the AGM's. Regardless of Fullrivers marketing nonsense, taking them regularly down to 20% SOC and rarely getting to 100% SOC as you do with the LFP's, like any SLA they would be expensive doorstops by now. Even compensating with a bank of SLA nearly twice that of LFP to secure the equivelent capacity to stay above 50% SOC, the absence of a regular full charge would still erode their cycle life/capacity.