Spin guy / brace length

sheethead

Member
362
2
Branford CT
Thanks M25-

Our current "heavy guys" are about 1.5 x the length, I'm going to rig some light guys to use up to 15 kts. The foredeckasylum gets real sloppy with end for ends using just the sheets, thought we'd give this a go. I only need 2.5 seconds overall to get on the podium this year ;-)

Jim

 

Merit 25

Super Anarchist
2,009
0
VA and MD USA
What size boat?

On the 36.7 we use sheets only up to 10 kts true. After that the guys go on (which are really heavy, big ass shackles) still do end-for-end. In 15 kts I (<-mast/bowman) would definitely want guys on b/c the back o' the bus rarely gets their shat together well enough w/ just 2 stings. Who would've thought more strings makes it easier for them to understand....

For light air guys, definitely want dyneema or vectran cores. Even though it'll be lighter, you'll be sailing hotter and loading up the guys more w/ apparent.

 

sheethead

Member
362
2
Branford CT
37.5 ft., we have the same setup and the same situation... As chairman of neverland, I can't figure out why 2 strings are better than 1... Maybe because there are 2 engineers and an architect... It's too simple...

We rig light sheets, 1/4 inch, for light air but want something to simplify the 5-15 range, which is the typical range on LIS.

I'm thinking 3/8 low stretch line would be more than enough, my issue is finding the right shackle, all of the QR styles are heavy. Any ideas on that?

 

Haligonian Winterr

Super Anarchist
1,478
57
Halifax, NS
37.5 ft., we have the same setup and the same situation... As chairman of neverland, I can't figure out why 2 strings are better than 1... Maybe because there are 2 engineers and an architect... It's too simple...

We rig light sheets, 1/4 inch, for light air but want something to simplify the 5-15 range, which is the typical range on LIS.

I'm thinking 3/8 low stretch line would be more than enough, my issue is finding the right shackle, all of the QR styles are heavy. Any ideas on that?
If you're dousing into the hatch, go buy a few feet of dyneema and learn how to make soft shackles, be sure to have pucks on the guys, and your foredeck always has. SHARP knife on them, and spare shackles.

If you're blowing the guy shackle with every douse, I've seen ultra lightweight plastic shackles (wouldn't trust them in anything +5 though). Or, if you've got the cash, I've seen farr30 use Tylaska t5s, maybe 10s, whichever ones are the smallest, as their all purpose shackle. Smaller than my thumb and very light

HW

 

sheethead

Member
362
2
Branford CT
We douse through the compainionway, unless shrimping is a better option... Those Tylaska t5s are sexy, used them on OPB- (yeah, I do bow on OPB)took a time or two to figure out how to relaese them efficiently- pricey though, I'll wait and see how much Defender wants for them at their spring sale. Ronstand has a lightweight snap shackel that's about 1/3 the price, might be my better option- there's a lot of shit on the wish list including the new #1 genny...

Thanks for the advice everyone!

Jim

 

Merit 25

Super Anarchist
2,009
0
VA and MD USA
We rig light sheets, 1/4 inch, for light air but want something to simplify the 5-15 range, which is the typical range on LIS.I'm thinking 3/8 low stretch line would be more than enough, my issue is finding the right shackle, all of the QR styles are heavy. Any ideas on that?
Do you ever see yourself blowing the shackle at the end of the pole? As in a spinnaker peel? If not, than the soft shackle really is the best bet. Lighter than anything else out there but cannot be released under load like a tylaska or other SS option. For distance stuff I use metal shackles, more all purpose. For short course (no peels) I use soft shackles.

T5s are the smallest they make and probably only 10x heavier and more expensive than the softies.

 

sheethead

Member
362
2
Branford CT
My current idea is to leave the sheets as is, and attach the "light guys" with a soft shackle to the bail of the snap shackle.

But the more I think about it, I'm leaning to reviewing my boat handling as to why gybes in 15kts or less go to shit... thinking I don't square the pole properly to adequately relieve the pressure on on the guy... Seems almost silly to do this unless we were exclusively doing dip pole gybes. 9 / 10 times we do end for end. Mayhap if I can reduce the clusterfuck in the cockpit, gybes would be smoother...

 

SailRacer

Super Anarchist
3,522
87
Sheet, you are on to something.. make sure the pit and Guy trimmer are in sinc with the mast - the relationship is a direct one you know.

Also helps to have a helm in the game as well.

Sail safe!

 

xyzzy

Anarchist
832
34
It helps to have the sheet trimmer continue to trim his side after the trip and after the pole is made. Have the old sheet trimmer keep the kite flying while the load is moved from the now lazy sheet to the new guy. Usually this means the guy trimmer brings the line in as fast as he can after the pole is made until he reaches the lazy sheet, then the lazy sheet needs to be eased some in concert with the guy being taken on to move the tack to pole while keeping the kite flying. If the old sheet trimmer just drops the lazy sheet after the pole is made then the tack is not kept trimmed because the guy isn't on yet.

On the pole side, try to keep the sheet above the jaws of the pole. After the gybe with the lazy sheet on top of the jaws, have someone "lasso" the sheet by spinning it around the guy. When it comes time to gybe and the load on the tack is taken up on the lazy sheet it will unspin and still be above the jaws. When the jaws are tripped the pole falls down and the guy goes up nice and clean. If the sheet is under the pole then it tends to get hung between the sheet and guy an. Now the bowman has to screw with the pole and mess with the kite's clew to get it free.

 

Haligonian Winterr

Super Anarchist
1,478
57
Halifax, NS
My current idea is to leave the sheets as is, and attach the "light guys" with a soft shackle to the bail of the snap shackle.

But the more I think about it, I'm leaning to reviewing my boat handling as to why gybes in 15kts or less go to shit... thinking I don't square the pole properly to adequately relieve the pressure on on the guy... Seems almost silly to do this unless we were exclusively doing dip pole gybes. 9 / 10 times we do end for end. Mayhap if I can reduce the clusterfuck in the cockpit, gybes would be smoother...
Don't attach the lights to the heavies, that defeats the purpose of having lights, and actually makes them heavier.

For end to end gybes, we get the pole "made" before the main gybes, and always get the trimmers the free fly the kite, drive the pole forward not out, and practise, practise, practise.

HW

 

sheethead

Member
362
2
Branford CT
Decided to give an eye splice on double braid a go... Much easier with new line!

Well worth the $20! LOL

IMAG0410-1.jpg

 

mad

Super Anarchist
37.5 ft., we have the same setup and the same situation... As chairman of neverland, I can't figure out why 2 strings are better than 1... Maybe because there are 2 engineers and an architect... It's too simple...

We rig light sheets, 1/4 inch, for light air but want something to simplify the 5-15 range, which is the typical range on LIS.

I'm thinking 3/8 low stretch line would be more than enough, my issue is finding the right shackle, all of the QR styles are heavy. Any ideas on that?
end for end on a 37.5 footer, thats go to be close the limit??

 

BalticBandit

Super Anarchist
11,114
2
Also for guys, "low stretch" ain't gonna cut it. you really want dyneema. first off, it transmitts more power into the boat, secondly, when you get on a closer reach, "low stretch" means quite a bit of stretch under creep loads. and Pole to forestay is a great way to damage that forestay track for a net repair cost that is higher than what you will invest in dyneema.

 
My current idea is to leave the sheets as is, and attach the "light guys" with a soft shackle to the bail of the snap shackle.

But the more I think about it, I'm leaning to reviewing my boat handling as to why gybes in 15kts or less go to shit... thinking I don't square the pole properly to adequately relieve the pressure on on the guy... Seems almost silly to do this unless we were exclusively doing dip pole gybes. 9 / 10 times we do end for end. Mayhap if I can reduce the clusterfuck in the cockpit, gybes would be smoother...
The thing to do in the cockpit is _nothing_

Drive Dead Down-Wind, once the pole is squared up. yell Gybe! and do nothing - the bow is now driving the boat.

Let the foredeck do their thing & when you hear "Made!" the trimmers should trim & then you can steer & gybe the main.

Changing course from a deep reach to DDW will unload all the lines and make it easier to handle them.

Moving the main before "Made" will only make things unstable up front.

So, get on course & stabilized as quick as possible & then do nothing till they're done up front.

 

Christian

Super Anarchist
One thing you should do as practice is to set the kite fly it and do a number of gybes without ever putting a pole up. This will teach you a lot and help you get your gybes under control. The pole is only needed for fine tune of the kite (and when reaching naturally to keep the tack to ww of the forestay) and you can easily fly the kite without a pole if you are sailing somewhat deep (you should be able to sail to 150-160 TWA this way). It may feel weird the first couple of times but the whole crew will learn a lot.

I prefer to have the kite trimmer take both sheets during the gybe - much better control of rotating it to the new side. In 20 knots and above it can be a little tough to do this unless you have a burly trimmer on a mid-30 's foot boat.

The above doesn't hinge on whether you use 2 or 4 kite strings

 
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