spin-guys length

[mrgnstrn]

I know there is some thumb-rule on the right length for spinnaker guys (AKA: afterguys, braces) but I can't find it at the moment.

Anybody out there remember?

thanks, M

 

[NyJboat]

Should be long enough to wrap around the forestay and down the hatch (let the clews touch the floor) so you can take it down, plus enough to get from the forestay to the winch with enough tail to be usable.

There might be a formula but thats the low tech way Ive always done it. Err on the long side, Ive gone to short by a 1ft and its really annoying.

 

[owlslick]

two times the length of the boat... the idea is to be able to recover the spin anywhere on the boat once the guy is released without releading the guy / sheet

 

[Moonduster]

It really depends on the boat and the way that you manage your sets and douses. For bigger boats, the following rules work pretty well:

• Spin Sheets - 2x boat length
• Jib Sheets - 1.75x boat length
• Spin afterguys - 1.5x boat length

Your mileage and other opinons will certainly vary. Just remember that if it's too short, you're basically screwed. Probably worth using some older, 2x lines and marking them to experiment with various lengths before splurging on super high-tech, very expensive strings ...

Good Luck!

 

[bammiller]

Be careful of spin sheets 2x boat length, especially if you are coming down the companionway - we used to go 2.25x, now its a solid 2.5x. Every boat is slightly different, but you can always make the lengths shorter - too short and life just sucks, right Kurty!

For what it's worth I have a pair of 10MM solid red Endura Braid afterguys for sale - Cheap! - 37' LOA. Brand new - never used!

Bam Miller

 

[mrgnstrn]

Be careful of spin sheets 2x boat length, especially if you are coming down the companionway - we used to go 2.25x, now its a solid 2.5x. Every boat is slightly different, but you can always make the lengths shorter - too short and life just sucks, right Kurty!

For what it's worth I have a pair of 10MM solid red Endura Braid afterguys for sale - Cheap! - 37' LOA. Brand new - never used!

Bam Miller

Bam, Interesting.

Using Moonduster's rule of thumb, those afterguys are for a 25' boat?

Isn't 10mm overkill for that size?

What is the right diameter of spectra/poly-doublebraid for a 35' masthead rig boat? Spin luff is ~45' and area is ~960sqft.

-M

 

[Nomenclature]

You can always add some low tech 'tails' to the

high tech,low stretch, working portion of the guy.

 

[maxtrim]

just replaced a lost guy on the SC50, measured 73' so the 1.5x rule is right on.

 

[NonSequitur]

What is the right diameter of spectra/poly-doublebraid for a 35' masthead rig boat? Spin luff is ~45' and area is ~960sqft.

-M

I'd be careful of going smaller than 5/16 dia. line because you've got to have something to hold onto (and if you have self tailing winches, they have to grab it too). That said, 3/16 SK75 (with cover is 5/16 dia line) should provide you with ample strength in a core, however, you can run the calculations yourself at the Wind Load Calculator.

 

[LakeBoy]

Be careful of spin sheets 2x boat length, especially if you are coming down the companionway - we used to go 2.25x, now its a solid 2.5x. Every boat is slightly different, but you can always make the lengths shorter - too short and life just sucks, right Kurty!

For what it's worth I have a pair of 10MM solid red Endura Braid afterguys for sale - Cheap! - 37' LOA. Brand new - never used!

Bam Miller

Bam, Interesting.

Using Moonduster's rule of thumb, those afterguys are for a 25' boat?

Isn't 10mm overkill for that size?

What is the right diameter of spectra/poly-doublebraid for a 35' masthead rig boat? Spin luff is ~45' and area is ~960sqft.

-M

Bam will have to confirm but my bet is he meant they were made for a 37' boat and are 56' long

 

[bammiller]

Be careful of spin sheets 2x boat length, especially if you are coming down the companionway - we used to go 2.25x, now its a solid 2.5x. Every boat is slightly different, but you can always make the lengths shorter - too short and life just sucks, right Kurty!

For what it's worth I have a pair of 10MM solid red Endura Braid afterguys for sale - Cheap! - 37' LOA. Brand new - never used!

Bam Miller

Bam, Interesting.

Using Moonduster's rule of thumb, those afterguys are for a 25' boat?

Isn't 10mm overkill for that size?

What is the right diameter of spectra/poly-doublebraid for a 35' masthead rig boat? Spin luff is ~45' and area is ~960sqft.

-M

Bam will have to confirm but my bet is he meant they were made for a 37' boat and are 56' long

Actually, they were for an IMX40 and they were supposed to have been 2 of them, but instead 1 length of line was pulled, both ends tapered and spliced and then it was cut in half. Pretty much a dumb shit move from the word "go" and entirely my fault. MFO has 2 new guys and is much happier.

As for the 35' boat; 5/16" is the right size, but tough on the hands. 3/8" would be more expensive, but much more user friendly. I would assume that these are being used at sheet/guys as opposed to lazy sheets or lazy guys.

Supposed you had a bunch of "oops" and "Can't sell that for new" items that you wanted to get rid of; what the best way to go about it? I have always admired a "craigs list" kind of approach. Anyone have thoughts on how to go about it?

Bam Miller

 

[mrgnstrn]

Actually, they were for an IMX40 and they were supposed to have been 2 of them, but instead 1 length of line was pulled, both ends tapered and spliced and then it was cut in half. Pretty much a dumb shit move from the word "go" and entirely my fault. MFO has 2 new guys and is much happier.

As for the 35' boat; 5/16" is the right size, but tough on the hands. 3/8" would be more expensive, but much more user friendly. I would assume that these are being used at sheet/guys as opposed to lazy sheets or lazy guys.

Supposed you had a bunch of "oops" and "Can't sell that for new" items that you wanted to get rid of; what the best way to go about it? I have always admired a "craigs list" kind of approach. Anyone have thoughts on how to go about it?

Bam Miller

5/16" for afterguys doesn't bother me since we run lazy sheets and lazy guys.

So is Sk75 ok? I keep seeing "vectran for afterguys" because of the creep. But I'm not seeing it. unlike halyards which may be difficult to adjust to regain tension, the afterguy lives on a winch and is (or should be) constantly adjusted. so what if it creeps 1/4" over an overnight race? right?

-M

 

[bammiller]

5/16" for afterguys doesn't bother me since we run lazy sheets and lazy guys.

So is Sk75 ok? I keep seeing "vectran for afterguys" because of the creep. But I'm not seeing it. unlike halyards which may be difficult to adjust to regain tension, the afterguy lives on a winch and is (or should be) constantly adjusted. so what if it creeps 1/4" over an overnight race? right?

-M

The only consideration for guy size is the length of the pole and the basic geometry of how the afterguy comes into the pole from the shrouds. Some boats with really narrow shroud base and long poles are more likely to overload smaller diameter line. What's the magic formula - If you have a 3" pole longer than 14'; 3/8" might be right size, especially if you sail in windy areas. What kind of boat are we talking about? I and J? Penalty pole or not?

As for fiber, DSK75, in my opinion, is an excellent choice and will outlast and perform equally as well as vectran. Most of the stretch dyneema has is constructional elongation; remove that prior to use (like they do with Dux) and you won't notice a difference. We have almost totally gotten out of the vectran business, 2 spools vs 20 something spools of Dyneema. Our Portugal rope supplier, Alpha, says that no one in Europe is using vectran; even for halyards.

Case in point: We provided, through Scar Rigging, all the running rigging for Lucky Frog who just took 6th in the J80 Worlds; there was no vectran on the boat; it was all pre-stretched DSK75. Congrats to the crew of Lucky Frog!

One last thought - If you are setting and forgetting the afterguy; it probably doesn't matter what fiber you use.

Bam Miller

 

[mrgnstrn]

The only consideration for guy size is the length of the pole and the basic geometry of how the afterguy comes into the pole from the shrouds. Some boats with really narrow shroud base and long poles are more likely to overload smaller diameter line. What's the magic formula - If you have a 3" pole longer than 14'; 3/8" might be right size, especially if you sail in windy areas. What kind of boat are we talking about? I and J? Penalty pole or not?

As for fiber, DSK75, in my opinion, is an excellent choice and will outlast and perform equally as well as vectran. Most of the stretch dyneema has is constructional elongation; remove that prior to use (like they do with Dux) and you won't notice a difference. We have almost totally gotten out of the vectran business, 2 spools vs 20 something spools of Dyneema. Our Portugal rope supplier, Alpha, says that no one in Europe is using vectran; even for halyards.

Case in point: We provided, through Scar Rigging, all the running rigging for Lucky Frog who just took 6th in the J80 Worlds; there was no vectran on the boat; it was all pre-stretched DSK75. Congrats to the crew of Lucky Frog!

One last thought - If you are setting and forgetting the afterguy; it probably doesn't matter what fiber you use.

Bam Miller

Yeah, I had a feeling that the negatives of vectran would eventually catch up to the one positive it has over dyneema.

I=46.25', J=13.67', 3"OD pole, not a penalty pole. boat is a mid-80's C&C. sail in the mid-chesapeake.

So, on the fence between 5/16 and 3/8. I guess, if I get 5/16 and am uphappy, TFB. and I won't be un-happy with 3/8. so that answers it.

-M

 

[bammiller]

The only consideration for guy size is the length of the pole and the basic geometry of how the afterguy comes into the pole from the shrouds. Some boats with really narrow shroud base and long poles are more likely to overload smaller diameter line. What's the magic formula - If you have a 3" pole longer than 14'; 3/8" might be right size, especially if you sail in windy areas. What kind of boat are we talking about? I and J? Penalty pole or not?

As for fiber, DSK75, in my opinion, is an excellent choice and will outlast and perform equally as well as vectran. Most of the stretch dyneema has is constructional elongation; remove that prior to use (like they do with Dux) and you won't notice a difference. We have almost totally gotten out of the vectran business, 2 spools vs 20 something spools of Dyneema. Our Portugal rope supplier, Alpha, says that no one in Europe is using vectran; even for halyards.

Case in point: We provided, through Scar Rigging, all the running rigging for Lucky Frog who just took 6th in the J80 Worlds; there was no vectran on the boat; it was all pre-stretched DSK75. Congrats to the crew of Lucky Frog!

One last thought - If you are setting and forgetting the afterguy; it probably doesn't matter what fiber you use.

Bam Miller

Yeah, I had a feeling that the negatives of vectran would eventually catch up to the one positive it has over dyneema.

I=46.25', J=13.67', 3"OD pole, not a penalty pole. boat is a mid-80's C&C. sail in the mid-chesapeake.

So, on the fence between 5/16 and 3/8. I guess, if I get 5/16 and am uphappy, TFB. and I won't be un-happy with 3/8. so that answers it.

-M

One final thought is that 3/8" line will grip better that 5/16" so you can use fewer turns on the drum, especially if your drums have been worn smooth from years of use. Your I and J are about the same as a J35, which I have often seen use 5/16". Pretty much personal preference based on the info provided. One final criteria would be how much beer do you carry when racing. If the answer is none - 5/16" is the choice, otherwise 3/8" will keep a happy crew happy.

Bam Miller

 

[Zac]

Creep is important on halyards however stretch is the key on after-guys. If the line stretches the pole will jump around considerably, maybe not a big deal on a small boat but the bigger you go the more solid you want to keep that pole.

We have 9mm dux afterguys and they are solid as a rock in waves, puffs, very very nice.

-Z