Spinnaker handling preferences?

[PJAZZ]

Hi all, I am single handing a Corsair F9AX more often than not. The boat is easy to sail alone and thrilling as well. My screecher is on a Harken Reflex furler and has allowed me to easily use it (often), I guess, the ease of use is why I use i so often...
My asymmetric spinnaker doesn't get as much "air time" unless the wind is very light.
I am contemplating rigging something to help me fly the asymmetric more often. Sock? Furler (top-down? other?) ?

What are you guys using and what do you recommend?

Thx, Pierre J.

 

[solosailor]

Don't do a top down fuller runner unless it's one of the new cable-less designs. Sock it a good call.

 

[munt]

Code zero on furler!

 

[VeloceSailing]

Personally I prefer no aiding accessories sailing solo, as they add to what could go wrong.
With this said, I like and would consider an horizontal snuffer like the one used on catamarans or few monohulls, like the seascape

 

[Wess]

Hi all, I am single handing a Corsair F9AX more often than not. The boat is easy to sail alone and thrilling as well. My screecher is on a Harken Reflex furler and has allowed me to easily use it (often), I guess, the ease of use is why I use i so often...
My asymmetric spinnaker doesn't get as much "air time" unless the wind is very light.
I am contemplating rigging something to help me fly the asymmetric more often. Sock? Furler (top-down? other?) ?

What are you guys using and what do you recommend?

Thx, Pierre J.

So... you are sailing a trimaran which gives you some advantages here and I would suggest that even single-handed you can "deck" launch and douse the chute even singlehanded. I speak from experience here as we do exactly this on a C36. I want to stress that we do this while cruising and not when racing as then I doubt it would be possible given the proximity of other boats. But cruising or day-sailing with a well planned and executed approach it can be done quite safely. It would be a bit much to spell out our SOP here so if interested drop me a PM and I am happy to try to help. Wess

PS - we have used both socks and top-down furlers and both have value (as well as complexity and potential problems) in certain circumstances but for how we sail the deck - OK net - launch and douse works best with less to go wrong.

 

[Foolish]

First, I'll just assume that you've read "Singlehanded Sailing: Thoughts, Tips, Techniques & Tactics". I have a strong belief against socks for anything less than a 40' boat. The main reason being that as you get better, you will start flying the chute in stronger winds. No doubt things will go wrong at some point and you will have to bring down the chute in less than ideal conditions. At that time, you don't want to have to go stand on the foredeck with your arm highs above your head while you bring down the sock, and then bring down the whole thing. You want to just be able to douse the chute in any conditions, at any point of sail, immediately. For example let's assume you are sailing in a breeze and want to turn between a buoy and an island. Is that the time you want to be up on the foredeck? Just last night I was out in 20 knots and (due to my own mishandling) put an hour glass in my spinnaker and wrapped it around the forestay. With a bit if experience I was able to bring it down on the windward side. Could you have untangled the mess and done this? Sailing is easy, until things go wrong and things always go wrong. So set yourself up to manage when things go wrong. You'll be a better sailor for it.

 

[solosailor]

Yes, the smaller the boat the less need for a sock. I got rid of mine on a 31ft boat prior and didn't put one on the next one with a 1300sqft kite.

 

[munt]

Maybe it's just me (and the smarter guys above) but I always felt like the sock made things more complicated, not less. As noted, when they work, no problemo. When any part or portion of them doesn't work then big problemo. I haven't used a top-down furler but I had a really useful code zero on a continuous-line furler and it was magic. Of course, you won't sail as deep as an assym but you probably won't care that often. It's also pretty cool to furl for jibing. As Wess said, when reasonably bagged, deck launching and takedown of an assym should be pretty easy (until you F it all up).

 

[PJAZZ]

Cool… I would rather not buy a sock or a furler, looks like I’ll save precious beer bucks ;-)
I’ve been bagging the chute from the leeward net so far with no issues, but it is a little hectic…
I first bear off to choke the kite behind the main. I pull in the leeward sheet to get the clew within reach. I blow the tack line and gather as much foot as I can. Then I blow the halyard and gather the whole sail down like a madman. That’s where I figure I have the greatest risk of f-ing up. Risk of dropping the sail in the water… risk of halyard jamming (Murphy’s law!) although I carefully flake the halyard in figure 8s, etc
Is there a trick to controlling the actual drop speed?
Thx folks, much appreciated
Cheers PJ

 

[Only Fools Rush In]

Drop the halyard overboard behind the boat. It will slow down the speed of dropping and the line won’t jam.

 

[bushsailor]

perhaps use a talaska trigger release snap shackle on the tack.
Blow the tack before dropping. (This way the kite weathervanes and cannot fill and pull you overboard.)
Set the kite for a letterbox drop.
pull into the main cabin using your foot or knee to control the halyard.
Nothing can go wrong (much) with this method.
You do not need to go forward and work on the tramp.

 

[munt]

I agree about dropping into cabin and using a body part to slow halyard as needed.

 

[Wess]

I would really like to hear from somebody doing letterbox drops as suggested above on a big tri... especially single-handed. I got an open mind and we have tried it but it really seemed far more trouble for zero gain. PITA to get the chute aft of the spreaders (on rotating mast), now the halyard did need to be controlled and it took much longer to gather and get it down. Not to mention a huge cluster fuck mess in the small cockpit. I get it on a monohull. Best option. But on a tri you got this big stable platform and big wide open net!?!

The net drop (far forward) is da bomb. Sail deep. Collapse chute behind the main. Blow and clip the clew to the deck by cabin. Blow and clip the tack to the float (by shroud). Blow (don't ease) the halyard and the chute all lands on the net as you gather. Easy as pie.

Furlers fail, jam and wrap. Not enough real-estate with our fractional rigs and furled screacher living hoisted for a sock.

 

[Foolish]

I would really like to hear from somebody doing letterbox drops as suggested above on a big tri... especially single-handed.

Works fine when you are sailing deep. But doesn't work when you are on a beam reach and the chute wants to come down behind the mainsail. Don't fight it, just bring it down behind the main.

 

[munt]

The masters of big, fast, shorthanded... Euros! How do they approach this issue on bigger boats? Seems like almost everything is on furlers, no? One big advantage is being able to do a nice, easy furl when jibing. Really relaxing! Jibing a big sail can be very problematic otherwise. Lazy sheet got caught on (any variety of things) and now you gots a big trouble! Nice steady furl, something gets hung up, you fix and carry on. And if it gets really funkled you drop it on deck/net. Of course, a half furled, jammed-up mess is raggedy-assed and dismal too, but seems kinda rare. Do any of the serious ocean racers still use non-furling sails?

 

[Wess]

The masters of big, fast, shorthanded... Euros! How do they approach this issue on bigger boats? Seems like almost everything is on furlers, no? One big advantage is being able to do a nice, easy furl when jibing. Really relaxing! Jibing a big sail can be very problematic otherwise. Lazy sheet got caught on (any variety of things) and now you gots a big trouble! Nice steady furl, something gets hung up, you fix and carry on. And if it gets really funkled you drop it on deck/net. Of course, a half furled, jammed-up mess is raggedy-assed and dismal too, but seems kinda rare. Do any of the serious ocean racers still use non-furling sails?

I think there is a big difference - like night and day difference - between what most ma and pa own and sail and those big fast short handed Euro things you reference. They are pros. Offshore. Apparent wind machines. And yes they have all furling. But even on our big tri which is pretty fast but we ma and pa - which means essentially single hand as someone is always off watch - we want and need a free flying asym runner. Even if it costs me a little downwind VMG I want to sail deep and limit gybe angle which limits the number of maneuvers. Two weeks back we sailed up the Chesapeake - about 150nm - overnight with the southerly behind us. I don't want to have to do a gybe every 30-60 minutes all night. Just not a practical way for ma and pa to cruise. So we have a free flying asym runner and drop it on the deck!

 

[munt]

 

[munt]

Agreed with much respect and deference Wess. Though I do think newer generations of furling sails will continue to improve angles.

 

[Wess]

Agreed with much respect and deference Wess. Though I do think newer generations of furling sails will continue to improve angles.

Absolutely agree. We played with a flatter cut slightly smaller asym that would fit on our F27 and be able to top down furl tight and tidy. After many recuts we had a chute that we could furl (and furl well enough that it could live furled and hoisted as we went up wind tacking into 20 knots of true) and was reasonably effective. We could measure exactly what we lost in speed and angle versus the optimized racing non furling asym runner we had for that boat. The experiment was informative and we might to repeat the "study" on the C36. Sure was nice to have every sail I needed hoisted and furled and ready to be used for any wind angle and speed. Never had to put down my adult beverage. Of course the windage of a furled chute, screacher and jib when docking sometimes made for VEERRRYYYY interesting and exciting times.

 

[Foolish]

Whatever method you choose, remember that you must be able to do it with no autopilot. Your auto will fail, and it will fail at the most inconvenient moment. At the very least you must be able to douse with no auto. Once you get good, you can launch, gybe and douse in 20 knot winds with nothing but a bungee cord.