Like the poor monohull people?
In a pinch you can always lash the dinghy with big enough outboard to the hip and push the big boat around like a tugboat. Works fine as long as it's not too windy.
steerable saildrive
- Thread starter Happy Wolf
- Start date
In a pinch you can always lash the dinghy with big enough outboard to the hip and push the big boat around like a tugboat. Works fine as long as it's not too windy.
Yes, like them
But I did say that may be acceptable to some people. To others it may not be, as for some people one of the specific advantages of a catamaran is the redundancy provided by a twin engine installation - and not necessarily just for actual motoring.
I think it all depends on what is trying to be achieved on a particular boat. Lightest? Simplest? Cheapest? Speed while motoring? Most capability? Most redundancy? Etc, etc...
All different things to consider and trade off against each other.
Mendigo Diver
New member
Twin diesels give you fantastic maneuverability and redundancy. When having to motor for extended periods you can run one at a time, giving you a perfect opportunity to do engine checks every change. Running both gives plenty of grunt and precision in waves, high current etc.
With folding/feathering props I dont see what there is not to like
500+ lbs, a whole set of spares, a whole maintenance routine, etc., etc.
Thankful I don't have a generator, a third engine (fourth counting dinghy outboard!) would really tear it...
mpenman
Member
Looked at the Hybrid Marine setup. The real issue is that batteries are terrible for motoring, so the hybrid setup is basically a waste. I looked at their specs and they're overreaching on solar. We have 5.4KW of solar and it's barely enough. Now if the admiral wants aircon, I'm praying for sun the next day!!!!
They're saying their battery bank is 40KWH? That's a LOT of batteries. We have 20kwh.
Diesel with shaft drives are as simple as you can get. I also have standard alternators so no fancy shmancy alternators. They already give me enough trouble.
For the amount of time you're sailing, hydrogens are not worth the squeeze.
They're saying their battery bank is 40KWH? That's a LOT of batteries. We have 20kwh.
Diesel with shaft drives are as simple as you can get. I also have standard alternators so no fancy shmancy alternators. They already give me enough trouble.
For the amount of time you're sailing, hydrogens are not worth the squeeze.
@mpenman They, who? Their specs? Solar? I'm confused...
As far as I know the Hybrid Marine system will integrate with various battery banks and solar setups. That's up to the customer to chose.
Or are you referring to a particular Hybrid Marine installation? Maybe on the HH44?
That's how one manufacturer has chosen to implement their overall package, with their chosen batteries, and their chosen solar.
But that shouldn't be muddled up with the Hybrid Marine propulsion setup itself, and it's various pluses and minuses.
Yes, both HH and Antares are installing around 40kWh of batteries. Like any battery bank it's possible to install more, or less, and have the corresponding change in capability from the bank.
Maybe you need more capacity, to tide you over between sunny days, if the admiral wants aircon...?
But I don't disagree that it may be a waste for some people. Like everything on boats it's important to match installations to the use case.
On the other hand, if someone is installing diesels and alternators anyway, it's not a lot different - just adding more options and more redundancy - but for more cost too of course.
As far as I know the Hybrid Marine system will integrate with various battery banks and solar setups. That's up to the customer to chose.
Or are you referring to a particular Hybrid Marine installation? Maybe on the HH44?
That's how one manufacturer has chosen to implement their overall package, with their chosen batteries, and their chosen solar.
But that shouldn't be muddled up with the Hybrid Marine propulsion setup itself, and it's various pluses and minuses.
Yes, both HH and Antares are installing around 40kWh of batteries. Like any battery bank it's possible to install more, or less, and have the corresponding change in capability from the bank.
Maybe you need more capacity, to tide you over between sunny days, if the admiral wants aircon...?
But I don't disagree that it may be a waste for some people. Like everything on boats it's important to match installations to the use case.
On the other hand, if someone is installing diesels and alternators anyway, it's not a lot different - just adding more options and more redundancy - but for more cost too of course.
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he b gb
Anarchist
40 KWH !, I thought the OP was looking to simplify his boat, whate happened to KISS?
Yes, there are several different conversations within this thread, and 40kWh wasn't being mentioned directly in relation to the OP.
Having said that, from a general point of view, there isn't really much difference in simplicity between battery banks of 10kWh, 20kWh, or 40kWh - they all need similar amounts of complexity or systems as part of their installation, just more of it. They all still need wiring, alternators, BMS, regulation, etc, etc. The main difference is cost and weight because the quantities are different.
In any case it's important to take a 'whole boat' approach to all of this, as it's all related. From what systems and comfort you want onboard, gas or electric galley, battery capacity, charging, solar, propulsion (regen possibly now too), hours or days of autonomy, etc, etc.
It's interesting to note a previous poster with 20kWh of battery capacity and 5kWh of solar now finding this to be not enough sometimes, when air conditioning is needed. To be fair, it's a larger boat with more people onboard. But it may also be a change in location is playing a factor - more rain, more humidity, less sun, etc. These are all factors to consider when planning systems.
Everything works perfectly when reading the sales brochure and the specs. In the real world, less so. So a belt and braces approach may be valid for some people and some use cases. Some other people are happy just to make do, and that's ok too of course.
If @mpenman was referring to the HH44 models that will launch with 40kWh of battery, 4kW+ of solar, and a twin diesel hybrid marine propulsion / charging setup, then yes indeed I agree with him that it will be very interesting to see how the balance of all that equipment works in practice.
I think the main factor that will make everything work on that boat will be that since it's a 44 it will mainly be a boat for a couple, so in most cases probably it will be more than enough capacity in terms of the combination of battery vs solar vs charging vs regen. It's not meant to motor around the world electrically. It's still a performance cruising cat that is meant to sail most of the time. And for long distance motoring, it still has the diesels for that.
But I will also add that just like living on land, people's aspirations tend to grow - the more they earn, the more they spend. And I think that applies to the energy budget on a boat too. When you only have a few 12V batteries and a 300W solar panel you learn to live modestly. If you have 40kWh and 4kW of solar available your lifestyle and aspirations will no doubt change!
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I predict these smaller complex boats will fail as voyaging platforms. They'll be too complex for most owner-operators to manage on their own for very long, and the owners won't have or won't fork out the money for the professionals. They'll be fine for local seasonal cruising.
That's a fair comment. And that probably applies to many modern cruising boats, where more and more systems are being fitted into smaller and smaller boats.
It's not so much the size of the boat that is the issue, but as you said, the technical ability and/or the budget of the owners.
You made a very valid comment a while ago in a different thread about the medium size boats, like you have - it was something along the lines of "too small to have permanent crew, but big enough to need it in terms of maintenance".
And that a lot of the boats that you looked at in that medium size range hadn't really been properly looked after and maintained.
In some cases the owners had even spent a lot of money, but the boat still wasn't really maintained as it should be.
That may well start applying to smaller boats too as they begin to have a similar amount of systems onboard.
Good input @CapDave
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I would‘ve never considered an Atlantic 55 to be a medium sized cat, or even medium/large, but I guess times have changed.That's a fair comment. And that probably applies to many modern cruising boats, where more and more systems are being fitted into smaller and smaller boats.
It's not so much the size of the boat that is the issue, but as you said, the technical ability and/or the budget of the owners.
You made a very valid comment a while ago in a different thread about the medium size boats, like you have - it was something along the lines of "too small to have permanent crew, but big enough to need it in terms of maintenance".
And that a lot of the boats that you looked at in that medium size range hadn't really been properly looked after and maintained.
In some cases the owners had even spent a lot of money, but the boat still wasn't really maintained as it should be.
That may well start applying to smaller boats too.
Good input @CapDave
Is that catamarans or poweryachts?
In the old days the Apache 45 was considered big and the Privilege 48 was unheard of huge! Back then our old Cherokee 35 was considered a sizable cruiser.
First time cruising 1995-1998: 30' boat. On the small side but others out there of similar size. Average was probably around 35-36'. A big boat was a Kelly Peterson 44. Can't think of any of our friends with bigger.
Second time: 2009-2017: 40' catamaran. Average size of boat was closer to 40' I'd say but a lot more bigger boats in the mid 40 and occasional 50'. Cats were now a thing and lots of them. Lots of 40-42' cats around. Very few much more than 45-46'.
Second time: 2009-2017: 40' catamaran. Average size of boat was closer to 40' I'd say but a lot more bigger boats in the mid 40 and occasional 50'. Cats were now a thing and lots of them. Lots of 40-42' cats around. Very few much more than 45-46'.
Purchased our first cat in 1992 and she was 32’, considered a decent size cat back then. Bought our Cherokee 35 in 1996, and though she was over 20 years old she was still considered a good sized well appointed cruising cat. Bought an Edel 43 in 2004 and she was considered large back then and we agreed, we didn’t need a cat that big. Our present 40’ open bridgedeck cat is well sized for us now, but considered small and probably impossible to live on by some!
