Steve and Dave Clarks Unidentified Foiling Object

[Rojoyinc]

I went through two foot battens in the first two months of ownership.  On the third batten, I preemptively wrapped some sail tape around the middle section of the batten and, almost two years later it’s still going strong.

View attachment 510659

I wish we could "reply" to a post and appear under it rather than at the end of the group. 
I didnt get this batten with my boat. I have battens here - which would be best?  a hobie 16 jib batten? they're fglass.  Or a F18 batten which is a sandwich that seems to have foam in the middle. I have dozens of both. I suspect the Hobie mainsail battens are way to stiff. (not much flex if I cut it to the 18 " needed. 

 

[Rojoyinc]

I imagine this 6 year old thread with now thousands? of posts willy-nilly was probably fine when there UFO was a sparkle in Dave's eye... but now that they are pushing 1000 out there could it be time we step out of this thread and post individual topics  "subject could always start with "UFO:" " then topic title. This would make specific topics easier to find and would keep replies in line with the initial question?   Starting all topics with  UFO:   would allow us and non ufo folks to enter or pass.  ???

 

[Rojoyinc]

@Rojoyinc - I just wanted to offer a few more tips about the rudder:

1. Tip - Changing rudder height:  There is a thumb screw made of white plastic on the starboard side of the rudder bracket.  This screw allows you to lock the height of the rudder so that you can set the rudder to 1/3 down as suggested by Dave in the shallows.   The thumb screw adds friction to prevent the rudder from sliding down.  You must also tighten the rudder line in its jam cleat to prevent the rudder from rising as the foil lift will overcome the friction of the thumb screw.  If you don't cleat the line, the foil will rise out of the water very quickly and you will be rudderless until you reset it.  This can be a bad situation if your are navigating between moorings and boats.  See attached photo of the set screw.

I can't see your starboard side of your rudder from your mod photo above, but I suspect that you either removed it or perhaps it was missing when you bought it.  Your mod is not necessary if you use the technique mentioned in the paragraph above and also follow Dave's sailing tips in his note.

2.  Tip - Avoid hitting bottom with the foils:  The foils are not like a Hobby or Sunfish rudder that can drag across the ocean bottom.  I always sail from the beach in the shallows to get to deep water (6 feet or greater).  Then I fully lower the foils.  Beware if you put too much of your weight on the stern, you lower the draft and have your rudder foil hit bottom.  The foils can easily chip (or worse) if you hit a submerged rock.  Scratches from shells also damage the laminar flow of the foil.  Avoid dragging your foils on the bottom at all cost.  If the wind is strong or waves are high, I recommend wading to deeper water.  The wind can also push you aground while you are setting your foils, so keep that in mind.  Eel grass won't damage your foils, but it will bring you to a quick stop.

3.  Tip - Don't fall out of your boat - I recommend keeping your feet strapped in the boat even if you're capsizing to windward.  I once fell off the boat and it quickly drifted away into a sand bar and flipped over in heavy winds.  The hull has a lot of surface area when on its side and can drift faster than you can swim in a life jacket.  Don't worry about getting out of the straps when upside-down underwater - your feet will easily slide out.

James B.

Nantucket Guy

View attachment 510426

EXCELLENT thank you - I heard about this screw from several sources. Mine is 077 hull and I think I read that was added AFTER mine was made. However I see a hole in that place. Could be the seller (who forget the foot batten) also didn't have? or removed the screw. I need all  mod/updates since 077. 
Hoping Dave will hook me up.  I'd also like to add those new pads with UFO engraved
I went to order some but had to get 25.  ( maybe I'll need that many if they get lost.

I found a pic and zoomed in.  This could be the hole. 

 

[Rojoyinc]

That's a cool extra rudder. 

Tell more about your launching & return. What's hard about steering? 

Is there a dominant wind direction? (Ie i usually launch upwind, return downwind)

Personally I find that if i set the boat on a reach, hop on and ensure i get some speed first, then i can steer (carefully, ensuring I'm not overpowering the rudder with the sail).

On the UFO, while in displacement mode you have to assume that the rudder is super underpowered, and that the sail will win. Even more so when the rudder is halfway up. So carry it under-trimmed. 

And finally, if coming in or out you need to go upwind, you'll want to right something up to have the main foil halfway down too. If the conditions are mild, it can be as simple as 2 large spring clamps.

cool concept. 

 

[Champlain Sailor]

Yep,  that looks like the hole.   Several owners of early boats (including me) drilled our own rudderheads and tapped them with 1/4-20 threads.   You can find a nylon 1/4-20 bolt at most local hardware stores.   Or you can get one from Fulcrum.   Its nice if you find one with a knurrled head, but you can turn a hex head with your hand too.   Note that it is good, but doesn't make the rudder actuation perfect.  And my nylon bolt seized up last fall and broke in half...need to drill it out  and replace it before launching this spring.  

The most important upgrade, in my mind, is to make sure your spreader fitting on the mast is made of composite, not metal.   The early ones (up to maybe hull 120) were metal.   These eventually failed, and could cost you the mast.    Fulcrum designed a nice carbon fiber replacement that gets epoxied on and it seems to be pretty bombproof.   If your spreader fitting is metal, I'd strongly advise getting it upgraded to composite ASAP.    

The nut in my adjuster wheel came loose too.   I ended up injecting some plexus into the wheel to re-secure it.  I believe Fulcrum uses a different design for that adjuster wheel now, but fixing the old ones is easy.  

Fulcrum also added a really simple righting line system to the bottom of the boats.   This is a great upgrade and makes recovering from capsizes much easier.   Highly recommended.

 

[Captain Ujack]

K man, you are the man! Thanks for the latest vid. Once again, great information here. Still waiting on the mothership to drop her 75 lb wonder on me, but I’m fairly sure it will be soon!

With the awesome amount of info that you, Dave and Martin have put out there, I’m sure I’ll be foiling as soon as possible!

 

[Rojoyinc]

Yep,  that looks like the hole.   Several owners of early boats (including me) drilled our own rudderheads and tapped them with 1/4-20 threads.   You can find a nylon 1/4-20 bolt at most local hardware stores.   Or you can get one from Fulcrum.   Its nice if you find one with a knurrled head, but you can turn a hex head with your hand too.   Note that it is good, but doesn't make the rudder actuation perfect.  And my nylon bolt seized up last fall and broke in half...need to drill it out  and replace it before launching this spring.  

It would seem something larger and more robust would be better? 
 

If your spreader fitting is metal, I'd strongly advise getting it upgraded to composite ASAP. 

Mine is metal. I requested to Dave that they combione all upgrades in a box for me and shoot me a price.  I heard many were free or just instructions over the years but my boat didn't get any.  I'd pay a fair price.    

e too.   I ended up injecting some plexus into the wheel to re-secure it.  I believe Fulcrum uses a different design for that adjuster wheel now, but fixing the old ones is easy.  

I have no idea what plexus is - I drilled it out and put a couple new nuts.  One that drilled out looked like it was nylon? 

Fulcrum also added a really simple righting line system to the bottom of the boats.   This is a great upgrade and makes recovering from capsizes much easier.   Highly recommended.

Dave mentioned that - YES I hope they build me a BOX and shoot me a price. 

 

 

[Champlain Sailor]

The nylon rudder bolt is a minor improvement at best.   I'd hesitate to use steel, as it would mark up the rudder shaft.   The cam operated stops that are on the Skeeta rudder and main foil look ideal, although I have not used them myself.   

Plexus is an industrial adhesive designed for bonding composites.   Its harder to find than West Epoxy, but for some materials it has much better binding properties.   When Fulcrum sent me my new spreader fitting, they included some Plexus to bond it and the mast track (which became dislodged from the mast when the spreader fitting failed) to the mast.   It is pretty nasty to work with, but a highly effective adhesive for these materials.

 

[martin 'hoff]

The nylon rudder bolt is a minor improvement at best.   I'd hesitate to use steel, as it would mark up the rudder shaft.   The cam operated stops that are on the Skeeta rudder and main foil look ideal, although I have not used them myself.

Might a rubber wedge doorstop work? We'd have to find somehow to secure it later. Maybe a piece like the 3d printed part @Kelly Federal uses to lock the rudder, combined/bonded with a rubbery wedge. 

 

[Gilles29]

If this can help, here is my rudder brake, made of a stainless steel screw (diameter approximately 5/16 inches (M8 metric system)) , a plastic knurled knob, and a plastic tip (brake on the rudder blade)

 

[Rojoyinc]

If this can help, here is my rudder brake, made of a stainless steel screw (diameter approximately 5/16 inches (M8 metric system)) , a plastic knurled knob, and a plastic tip (brake on the rudder blade)

View attachment 510927

View attachment 510928

This is what I pictured in my  head.  Does the brake screw on the tip? 
Some of my astro photography gear has bolts that have nylon tips built in.  But they're small and from friction from this use...  would wear away quickly.  That small thin nylon screw doesn't seem solid to me. Like someone said theirs jammed and Broke. This means the rudder is STUCK? Hopefully not down. 

 

[Rojoyinc]

Sorry to hear about your frustrations.  I think I can offer solutions to some of them.  I’ll message you with my contact info so we can talk through some of this stuff if you’d like.  

I've learned already.
My sail raising problem may have been I had it tensioned?  I don't recall but I read you must un-tension to raise the sail.  I also ordered sail kote.
If I don't have to carry mast and sail and boom to sail or put it away that will eliminate a massive problem.

Rudder can't get it up. Instead of stopping to pull it up I may try while underway and use the lift to help raise it.  LOCKING it - I learned is a set screw addition.  Though poor...  it can surely eliminate that furstration of trying to get in to shore with rudder down part way.

I also am setting up a anchor and float about 20 ft out from shore so sail into and "CLIP" to the boat allow it to head to wind and stay put while I prep for shore.  if I could get the sail up and down easily it would be a great time "on the buoy to drop the sale which would eliminate me wrestling the boat to shore. 

Slop in tiller due to the SLOT rake adjustment on top of rudder mount.
I think it sloppy because I read that only a couple threads should appear for proper starting point. (this means it's really pushing back allowing slop. I've later read the rake should be 1/2 way in the slot?  I will tighten to that location and see if that tightens up the play of the rudder in the slot. 

If the sail were easy to get up and down it would eliminate the other stress/frustrations.   Starting at a dock would too. But I'm quite sure our dock isn't need deep enough. 

Car/wheels don't work well on sand. I have built some skids for the hobies and we can easily pull out of the water up on the kids (one person) If I try the UFO on the skids (placed closer together) it would eliminate getting the wheels under the boat in the water and make that fight easier. 

With help here and from email with Dave I feel I can come up with solutions to some of my issues. 

 

[Gilles29]

This is what I pictured in my  head.  Does the brake screw on the tip? 
Some of my astro photography gear has bolts that have nylon tips built in.  But they're small and from friction from this use...  would wear away quickly.  That small thin nylon screw doesn't seem solid to me. Like someone said theirs jammed and Broke. This means the rudder is STUCK? Hopefully not down. 

Yes the tip is threaded

 

[Rojoyinc]

Gilles29 - (do you have links where to order? 

What about

http://www.pdm-industry.com/uploads/190529/1-1Z5291313345R.jpg

 

[martin 'hoff]

Yes the tip is threaded

If you get some info – which bits to buy, we can put it in the guide...

 

[GraniteGuy]

Back in 2018, I posted what I did to hold the rudder up:

The thumbscrew supplied by Fulcrum is on the left. I found that it wasn't easy to tighten it enough to hold the rudder up so I created the one on the right, which consists of a 1/4-20 nylon bolt, wing nut, and nut. I used gel super glue (CA) to hold the wing nut and nut in place, jamming the nut up against the wing nut as tight as possible. Later on, I pinned the wing nut in place with a piece of music wire, adding a tiny blob of epoxy at each end of the drilled hole. With the music wire and CA holding the wing nut in place, I'm sure that the extra nut wouldn't be necessary. With this "improved" version, it's easy to tighten the bolt sufficiently.

I've been quite happy with this, although early on I broke one of these by overtightening. The wing nut is way better than the knurled knob.

 

[Gilles29]

If you get some info – which bits to buy, we can put it in the guide...

I don't remember where I exactly  bought the knurled knob...

But, here is a little drawing I made for my rudder brake system (I made a mistake in my previous post, because the plastic tip is not threaded)

 

[JC843]

Hello All,

I bought a factory refurbished UFO about a year ago, and I am unfortunately putting it up for sale. Boat is in good, used condition, and I am selling it because I cannot launch it and sail it where I planned to when I bought the boat, and the bottom line is that I’m just not using it enough. I am located in Charleston, SC, and I have pics and more information about the boat available to interested parties- just message me and I will be happy to discuss the boat and send pics. I have enjoyed the boat in the few times I have used it, and I wish I had a more appropriate place to sail it as I would certainly keep it. As mentioned, the boat was factory refurbished and was lightly used by me- I do think that the holder that retains the pin for the main foil needs to be replaced as it seems rubbed down, and there is a small chip out of the rudder foil- other than that the boat is in very good condition. Paid $6200 June 2021, asking 5k. Contact me with questions. 
Best,

Jon

 

[Champlain Sailor]

I've learned already.
My sail raising problem may have been I had it tensioned?  I don't recall but I read you must un-tension to raise the sail.  I also ordered sail kote.
If I don't have to carry mast and sail and boom to sail or put it away that will eliminate a massive problem.

Rudder can't get it up. Instead of stopping to pull it up I may try while underway and use the lift to help raise it.  LOCKING it - I learned is a set screw addition.  Though poor...  it can surely eliminate that furstration of trying to get in to shore with rudder down part way.
 

Sailkote will really help the sail, and as others have said, ensure your side stay tension is all the way off and you are pulling from the aft side of the boat.   This bends the mast and helps it match the cut of the sail.   When the sail is new, it is difficult, as the bolt rope hasn't stretched out and its fat.   After raising it 15-20 times, it should stretch out and it gets much easier.   One you have a lot of use on the sail, the bolt rope starts to come apart in areas and it gets harder again.    One other thing to check, if it gets really hard at one point when hoisting it, check the mast track in that area.   The tracks can crack or break, and if that catches on the bolt rope, you won't get it up no matter how hard you pull.

As for using lift to raise the rudder foil, that is the preferred method.   When I'm ready to head in, I usually:

1. Raise the mainfoil and secure it in position with the cam under the mast.

2. Uncoil the rudder downhaul from the tiller (you wrap it between the clip on the front of the tiller and the metal wheel on the port side when you are sailing and the rudder is down).   Pull about 1/2 of the downhaul through the cleat, then cleat the downhaul firmly in that position.

3.   Bare away and sail.   Make sure you are sitting more aft than normal, you have no lifting force in the front, and you have lift in the back.   Pitchpole risk is real.   

4.  The rudder won't usually come up if there is much side load, so I try to make S turns into a deep reach, and when headed downwind with some speed, the rudder jumps up quite nicely.   Then you have to reach back and tighten the brake.   

5.  Pay attention to the downhaul.  In heavier wind, my rudder downhaul will often slip out of the cleat and the rudder will lift beyond where I want it to.  Once its 1/4 way up its pretty useless, and you will do a UFO spinout in short order.   

6.  I try to sail until its about 3 or 4' deep, then I jump out.   That's about 40' from shore where I live. I don't want to risk the rudder dropping at the last minute, and I like some sea room as I wrestle the boat into the wind and move to the back of the boat to raise the rudder all the way to secure it.   This can be a challenge in heavy weather.   Your idea of a small anchor to hold the boat would be really helpful here.   

This describes a downwind landing.    Upwind, you have a lot more control and you can luff up and stop at anytime.   I usually don't worry as much about the rudder in this situation, I might raise it some, but I'll usually jump out before it gets shallow enough to worry about it.  I find the UFO sails just fine upwind with no mainfoil down, I don't use the 1/2 way down position that some folks have modified their boats to do.

 

[Jolly Roger]

That's a cool extra rudder. 

Tell more about your launching & return. What's hard about steering? 

Is there a dominant wind direction? (Ie i usually launch upwind, return downwind)

Personally I find that if i set the boat on a reach, hop on and ensure i get some speed first, then i can steer (carefully, ensuring I'm not overpowering the rudder with the sail).

On the UFO, while in displacement mode you have to assume that the rudder is super underpowered, and that the sail will win. Even more so when the rudder is halfway up. So carry it under-trimmed. 

And finally, if coming in or out you need to go upwind, you'll want to right something up to have the main foil halfway down too. If the conditions are mild, it can be as simple as 2 large spring clamps.

Version 0.1 broke, the plywood gave way during some furious sculling.  Version 0.2 made with plastic sheeting seemed better but eventually it also cracked and gave way.

Maybe the problem is that I'm tipping the scales at 200 lbs, but I can't get the boat moving forward without at least 2/3 of the rudder, regardless of how much trim I apply to the sail.  If the wind isn't from the right direction that limits where I can go from my usual launch location.

I think the next version will need to use thicker materials and go around the outside of the existing rudder in some way.  The other option is an oar...