Steve and Dave Clarks Unidentified Foiling Object

[Kelly Federal]

TACKING

I’m definitely approaching my technical foiling abilities here, but I’m confident enough to offer up some tips to avoid having to do the Heisman.  Hope it helps…

 

[Rojoyinc]

Thanks - I have a hole. I bought screws and there appears to be no threads.  so I'll buy a tap... OR should I drill the hole larger first as the current nylon screws seem to small. (thin and can break easily). Wondering about a larger KNOB with the nylon tip?  I mean if I m gonna tap it - I might as well get a decent knob first? 
Anyone find something ideal? 

After a lot of emails with Dave - I tried the boat yesterday in gusty 15+ 
My main frustration was getting the sail up and down.  I checked the track for obstructions and seemed fine. I sail koted it.  The luff on the sail had two places that jammed and ripped. There was extra material there by the battens. (there is extra layer on each) I trimmed away the extra ripped material and sail koted the luff.

This time I did not tension the shrouds. (I think I read in here it's impossible with them tensioned). Well it wasn't impossible but it did take me 2 days and I never dared take it down. This new info did the trick.  I went to raise the sail.  AMAZINGLY it was easy.  MAYBE the easiest of all the 20 boats I've owned. 

I did have a issue. With the bottom part and track. It went in but I was left with that 2 " kink of sail between the two tracks.  The top of the bottom track is also cut square and sharp.  I was think if that I could cut/trim 2 more inches off the top of the lower track?  Making for less tension in the KINK in the sail between the top and bottom tracks.  I tried downhaul and outhaul and oddly my lines were to short.  I confusingly messed with the outhaul for 10-15 min. I somehow got the slack I needed to really flatten the sail.  I then managed to get the down haul but only running the line through the car and not the ring in the foot of the sail.  FLATTENED the sail vertically as well and I had a nice flat sail... all was working well!   But not sure how to loosen the outhaul to allow that extra tight flat sail. (It some how happened with lots of fiddling. 

I'm REALLY relieved I can get the sail up and down easily but I've love some instruction on how to loosen the outhaul to allow a flat rig.  (Dave) shows it in the video like  wham bam thank you mam... but never says what, why or how he is messing with (all those cool loops) to get the slack needed. 

All worked well, I got up a couple times in puffs.  I think my rear foil AoA is not right but Dave is sending me a updates package that should take the slop out of the tiller/rake of the rear foil mast. 

I also put the wheels away - they don't roll well in soft sand. (harder or softer tires in SOFT sand?) they seem quite soft but with my old sets of wheels the balloon SOFT tires were best.  Anyway to get boat on and off of it was another hassle and I want to eliminate all hassles.   So put them away, I now am making a slipway on the beach with PVC that will allow me to easily slide the hulls up and down to the water.   With two tweaks so far and much frustration has been eliminated!!!!   Dave's support as been exemplary. 

I'm SO relieved the sail goes up quite easily.  I didnt' have to do any fancy "stuff shoulder" tricks. I just pulled the halyard and pushed up with my other hand. 

I'd love to see some in depth detailed video on how to loosen and connect the outhaul. 
I got lucky but no clue how I did it.   I think it was a bit to flat for conditions I wanted more of a pocket in the sail... what would be best while onboat to depower it a bit?   I've not BIFFED IT into the water yet... been up 4 times without trying really.  My son in law on his H16 saw me as I screamed  YAHOO and said it looked really cool.  I can't wait for my UFO (upgrade parts). 

@Rojoyinc - I just wanted to offer a few more tips about the rudder:

1. Tip - Changing rudder height:  There is a thumb screw made of white plastic on the starboard side of the rudder bracket.  This screw allows you to lock the height of the rudder so that you can set the rudder to 1/3 down as suggested by Dave in the shallows.   The thumb screw adds friction to prevent the rudder from sliding down.  You must also tighten the rudder line in its jam cleat to prevent the rudder from rising as the foil lift will overcome the friction of the thumb screw.  If you don't cleat the line, the foil will rise out of the water very quickly and you will be rudderless until you reset it.  This can be a bad situation if your are navigating between moorings and boats.  See attached photo of the set screw.

I can't see your starboard side of your rudder from your mod photo above, but I suspect that you either removed it or perhaps it was missing when you bought it.  Your mod is not necessary if you use the technique mentioned in the paragraph above and also follow Dave's sailing tips in his note.

2.  Tip - Avoid hitting bottom with the foils:  The foils are not like a Hobby or Sunfish rudder that can drag across the ocean bottom.  I always sail from the beach in the shallows to get to deep water (6 feet or greater).  Then I fully lower the foils.  Beware if you put too much of your weight on the stern, you lower the draft and have your rudder foil hit bottom.  The foils can easily chip (or worse) if you hit a submerged rock.  Scratches from shells also damage the laminar flow of the foil.  Avoid dragging your foils on the bottom at all cost.  If the wind is strong or waves are high, I recommend wading to deeper water.  The wind can also push you aground while you are setting your foils, so keep that in mind.  Eel grass won't damage your foils, but it will bring you to a quick stop.

3.  Tip - Don't fall out of your boat - I recommend keeping your feet strapped in the boat even if you're capsizing to windward.  I once fell off the boat and it quickly drifted away into a sand bar and flipped over in heavy winds.  The hull has a lot of surface area when on its side and can drift faster than you can swim in a life jacket.  Don't worry about getting out of the straps when upside-down underwater - your feet will easily slide out.

James B.

Nantucket Guy

View attachment 510426

 

[Rojoyinc]

Version 0.1 broke, the plywood gave way during some furious sculling.  Version 0.2 made with plastic sheeting seemed better but eventually it also cracked and gave way.

Maybe the problem is that I'm tipping the scales at 200 lbs, but I can't get the boat moving forward without at least 2/3 of the rudder, regardless of how much trim I apply to the sail.  If the wind isn't from the right direction that limits where I can go from my usual launch location.

I think the next version will need to use thicker materials and go around the outside of the existing rudder in some way.  The other option is an oar...

View attachment 511736

Two words this was a protype?)  CARBON FIBER  ;-)

Maybe Fulcrum can come up with something that we can purchase as an accessory. I'd love to raise both and still be able to steer.  My foiling Acat had the same issue and dagger foils up and out - then two rear foils  up  1/2 way and I had zero control.  = (   I sold that boat because of that reason. 

 

[Rojoyinc]

I went through two foot battens in the first two months of ownership.  On the third batten, I preemptively wrapped some sail tape around the middle section of the batten and, almost two years later it’s still going strong.

View attachment 510659

GOOD TO KNOW - I had a hobie 16 jib batten here and a Tiger (f18) batten. The later fit perfect... I just CUT it with a tin snips to proper length.  I'll see how it works out (why are they breaking?)  capt'n rolling on it?  
mine look like this. 
 

 

[Rojoyinc]

Sailkote will really help the sail, and as others have said, ensure your side stay tension is all the way off and you are pulling from the aft side of the boat.   This bends the mast and helps it match the cut of the sail.   When the sail is new, it is difficult, as the bolt rope hasn't stretched out and its fat.   After raising it 15-20 times, it should stretch out and it gets much easier.   One you have a lot of use on the sail, the bolt rope starts to come apart in areas and it gets harder again.    One other thing to check, if it gets really hard at one point when hoisting it, check the mast track in that area.   The tracks can crack or break, and if that catches on the bolt rope, you won't get it up no matter how hard you pull.

As for using lift to raise the rudder foil, that is the preferred method.   When I'm ready to head in, I usually:

1. Raise the mainfoil and secure it in position with the cam under the mast.

2. Uncoil the rudder downhaul from the tiller (you wrap it between the clip on the front of the tiller and the metal wheel on the port side when you are sailing and the rudder is down).   Pull about 1/2 of the downhaul through the cleat, then cleat the downhaul firmly in that position.

3.   Bare away and sail.   Make sure you are sitting more aft than normal, you have no lifting force in the front, and you have lift in the back.   Pitchpole risk is real.   

4.  The rudder won't usually come up if there is much side load, so I try to make S turns into a deep reach, and when headed downwind with some speed, the rudder jumps up quite nicely.   Then you have to reach back and tighten the brake.   

5.  Pay attention to the downhaul.  In heavier wind, my rudder downhaul will often slip out of the cleat and the rudder will lift beyond where I want it to.  Once its 1/4 way up its pretty useless, and you will do a UFO spinout in short order.   

6.  I try to sail until its about 3 or 4' deep, then I jump out.   That's about 40' from shore where I live. I don't want to risk the rudder dropping at the last minute, and I like some sea room as I wrestle the boat into the wind and move to the back of the boat to raise the rudder all the way to secure it.   This can be a challenge in heavy weather.   Your idea of a small anchor to hold the boat would be really helpful here.   

This describes a downwind landing.    Upwind, you have a lot more control and you can luff up and stop at anytime.   I usually don't worry as much about the rudder in this situation, I might raise it some, but I'll usually jump out before it gets shallow enough to worry about it.  I find the UFO sails just fine upwind with no mainfoil down, I don't use the 1/2 way down position that some folks have modified their boats to do.

Solved sail problem (up and down)!

Rudder not fixed yet. Screw hole not threaded. And I'd like a knob or decent sized screw.
Dave explained it will raise itself as you stated.  My issue so far is my rudder down haul line is 6" to short (So is Dave's in the how to rig video)  He says here to here and then cleat and it doesn't reach. So I skipped the last loop. And tried moving the line proper once I lowered the rudder. (no go). I only have heavier line. MAybe my 1/8th line will work?  It needs to be 6" longer so I can run the proper route and still cleat it.  At least with my slipway to enter and exit and my sail now going up and down I'm more excited to go give it another go.    I noticed last time out that the main sheet was really hard to pull.  After some looking around DOH - I forgot to run down to the bridal then back UP to the pully, then foward.  I went from the knot - down to bridal then forward so it was a BEAST to try and sheet in.  (each time I learn more.)   Updaptes are in the mail to me so I'll cross my fingers.  I've been up on foil 4 times. But total air distance is about 100 ft. I typically fall sideways and then say DARN IT - I let out instead of sheeting in. 

My distance from beach to not touching the bottom is about 25 ft.  Falls off fast - if I hold the boat  I can't touch the bottom with foils down. So I leave forward foil up. And TRY to lock the rear (but I have no lock yet).  If I pull up on the boat my weight makes the rudder hit.  It's a gravel/sand bottom. So it's been hectic.  If I can lock the rear foil at about 2ft depth I'll be golden.  TAPPING the hole or larger hole is a top my to do list.

 

[Rojoyinc]

I don't remember where I exactly  bought the knurled knob...

But, here is a little drawing I made for my rudder brake system (I made a mistake in my previous post, because the plastic tip is not threaded)

View attachment 511076

Got a photo of the actual knob in place and removed? 

 

[Rojoyinc]

KNOBZ  Am I better of drilling the hole and taping for this size with plastic tip?

https://www.amazon.com/JW-Winco-Plastic-Threaded-Diameter/dp/B00A9N6ZD4/ref=sr_1_5?crid=270ZG4F2Y5FA6&keywords=plastic+tip+knob&qid=1654042890&sprefix=plastic%2Caps%2C68&sr=8-5

Or getting a 1/4 20  knob and then apply some sort of plastic end cap? on it?  I 'm not finding  nylon tipped in  1/4-20 ???????????

OR THESE?  What length is needed for the UFO? 

https://www.mcmaster.com/knobs/thread-size~1-4-20/soft-tip-thumb-screws/

How to put a SOFT TIP on these ?  How much clearance is there between rudder mast and the housing?  Enough room to put a "cap" on the tip of the thread once inserted? 

https://www.amazon.com/Hillman-Group-58502-4-20-Inch-Cleaner/dp/B00NWJG82A/ref=sr_1_1?content-id=amzn1.sym.918a99dd-4826-4c0a-be33-a6705d69c4cf%3Aamzn1.sym.918a99dd-4826-4c0a-be33-a6705d69c4cf&crid=37DPP90GN044H&keywords=Screws&pd_rd_r=96b97d45-ec19-40fc-928b-48d75e4efee8&pd_rd_w=APsWx&pd_rd_wg=JfOId&pf_rd_p=918a99dd-4826-4c0a-be33-a6705d69c4cf&pf_rd_r=WYHDKW0B319MN3QTYXYT&pid=tlNmTnZ&qid=1654043672&refinements=p_n_feature_two_browse-bin%3A17738543011%2Cp_n_feature_twenty-eight_browse-bin%3A19043642011%2Cp_n_material_browse%3A17548929011&s=industrial&sprefix=soft-tip+thumb+screws%2Caps%2C63&sr=1-1

 

[LarryO]

They are roomier, depending on how you mount it.  See my post on 4 January for a photo of the first-generation model.  They lasted one year of HARD sailing before one of the straps got close to parting at one end and I decided it was time to refresh them.  This next iteration, I’m having the rigger double up the ends (might require longer screws) while leaving a bight in one end (possible water bottle attach point).

I got a few takers saying they wanted a set when I first asked, so am obligated to those guys first; but may have a set or two left over.  In any event, I believe my guy has standardized his process, so he may be ready to take orders himself directly.  When they’re ready for pickup I’ll check with him about follow-on orders and how he wants to handle it.

I'm interested in them too!  

 

[LarryO]

On 3/28/2022 at 8:37 AM, martin 'hoff said:

So @Kelly Federal what did you do this weekend, other than spectacular dock fly-bys?

Tell me about those masthead tell tales!  Home made or purchased?  How useful are they?
Thanks!

 

[Gilles29]

Got a photo of the actual knob in place and removed? 

Here are some photos ; hole threaded, knob and stainless steel screw, plastic tip

 

[Kelly Federal]

HIKING STRAPS - Putting together another order

Send me a message if you want a set.  Based on testing and feedback, we're adding an inch to the length for a little extra room, but all else remains the same: heavy duty strap with padded underside, doubled over at the ends for durability, and a bight at the forward end for additional attach point options.



In the meantime, here's some foiling zen:

This is the second of two straight days of glorious foiling on the Wilmington River in Savannah, GA.  Just perfect conditions: 12 knots of wind and flat water.  And even though it was the start of Memorial Day weekend, there still wasn’t too much boat traffic on the water yet.  Of course, it’s always fun to get shout outs from passing boats.  But had a special observer today: US Olympic windsurfer Taylor Duch gave me some encouragement from the dock for one more pass.  When I got back to the dock had the opportunity to chat with her and her parents.  She’s getting into winging herself and said she’d bring her gear the next time she’s in town.  Perhaps I might be able to convince her to take a turn on the UFO!

 

[Kelly Federal]

Tell me about those masthead tell tales!  Home made or purchased?  How useful are they?
Thanks!

It’s actually just one of those streamers that gymnasts use for “interpretive dance” routines — think of Will Farrell in the movie Old School.  It has a thin baton at the end that fits conveniently and snugly into a batten sleeve.  I originally got it ($10 for a pack of them on Amazon) so my wife and kids could more easily find me during the Fort 2 Battery race.  I’m not so sure how helpful it is, but it’s flashy and fun.  Sometimes I throw it into the top batten sleeve when I think there might be an audience.  I’m considering putting in a red, white, and blue one in the top three batten sleeves on 4th of July if there’s wind.

 

[Rojoyinc]

Here are some photos ; hole threaded, knob and stainless steel screw, plastic tip

View attachment 512799

View attachment 512800

View attachment 512801

Bonjour!  Thank you - So what stops the plastic tip from falling off and getting lost?
the tip of the bolt appears to be "press in place" ?   What are the nylon end caps called?  Bolt tips? 

 

[LarryO]

2 hours ago, Kelly Federal said:

It’s actually just one of those streamers that gymnasts use for “interpretive dance” routines — think of Will Farrell in the movie Old School.  It has a thin baton at the end that fits conveniently and snugly into a batten sleeve.  I originally got it ($10 for a pack of them on Amazon) so my wife and kids could more easily find me during the Fort 2 Battery race.  I’m not so sure how helpful it is, but it’s flashy and fun.  Sometimes I throw it into the top batten sleeve when I think there might be an audience.  I’m considering putting in a red, white, and blue one in the top three batten sleeves on 4th of July if there’s wind.

You got me almost in tears laughing.  But I like the idea for the 4th or other special occasion.  
I had thought that they might serve as wind telltales.

 

[Rojoyinc]

Old audio or (thicker) video reocrding tape works well as it's super light/thin. 
A mylar tape would also work with a chrome look. 

 

[Gilles29]

Bonjour!  Thank you - So what stops the plastic tip from falling off and getting lost?
the tip of the bolt appears to be "press in place" ?   What are the nylon end caps called?  Bolt tips? 

[SIZE=14px]No, it can't fall out because there isn't enough space between the rudder blade 
and the rudder head, unless you unscrew the wheel all the way ...
(which I never do except when disassembling). 
I've had this system for 2 years, and I've never lost the plastic tip.[/SIZE]

 

[Kelly Federal]

Hiking Strap Update

Good news: I have enough takers to put an order in.

Bad news: my rigger is out with Covid.

What this means is that if you are interested in grabbing a pair, please let me know ASAP; because as soon as my guy is back at work, I'll be submitting the work order.

In the meantime here's some foiling zen from this past weekend.  It's been an amazing four days of foiling in a row here in Savannah.  Come visit!

 

[Pensacola Joe]

No hurry on my part. Maybe more orders will come in and we will be able to get a quantity discount.

Thanks for the great video!

 

[Captain Ujack]

On 6/6/2022 at 9:41 AM, Kelly Federal said:

Hiking Strap Update

Good news: I have enough takers to put an order in.

Bad news: my rigger is out with Covid.

What this means is that if you are interested in grabbing a pair, please let me know ASAP; because as soon as my guy is back at work, I'll be submitting the work order.

In the meantime here's some foiling zen from this past weekend.  It's been an amazing four days of foiling in a row here in Savannah.  Come visit!

Yet another cool vid! Love them all! 

Do I sound like I’m whining? My rank has me at whiner. When my boat arrives, I’ll give you all something to whine about!

 

[P Flados]

For the new guys, 

If you have to low mode tack a lot, the "do not pop the batten until moving" advise from Martin is a big deal.  Learning how to quickly get a UFO moving makes tacking much less frustrating.  

In fact, I needed, I have been known to stand up, grab the boom and pop battens "the wrong way" (and spin the boat to point more off of the wind) as needed to get moving on a desired tack.  

And you should try some activities that are more like windsurfing than normal sailing.  For example, at low/no speed let go of the tiller, stand up and grab the boom and push it out and hold.  Watch how the boat spins around.  Pull the sail back to center, duck under it and push it out the other way.  This shows you how much control you have over boat direction just using the sail.