Steve and Dave Clarks Unidentified Foiling Object

[Rojoyinc]

0Royjoyinc:

As relatively early UFO owners/sailor (hull 93) I understand some of your frustrations . My first recommendation is to begin the conversations by asking for help, not introduce yourself by complaining about the boat, the company, or the person that manufactured it. The boat is not perfect (none are) but it is an amazing foiling dinghy that can provide a huge amount of fun and sailing satisfaction from a modest investment in money and a moderate investment of time.

As Martin said above, the UFO (and all other foilers that I'm aware of) are unique enough that setting the boat up and learning to sail it is not intuitive. It can be done, but its pretty frustrating. And there is no need to...these problems have been solved! You just need to know where to look for solutions. If you are seeking a boat that you can jump on and sail without instructions or outside help, then you have chosen the wrong boat. There is definately a learning curve for everyone. As I said, it DOES require a moderate investment of time.

The first place to look further is this email thread. Just about every frustration you have listed has been voiced here, and solutions developed. But its been over 4 years of learning and development, so it takes a while to read through all the posts. Dave and Kelly have posted some great instructional videos.

I'm a little surprised at some of your expectations. No, you can not just beach it (well, I guess you could, once). Since you list foiling A-Cat's in your resume, you understand that foils need to be rigid and they need to be beneath the hull. So, please don't complain that you can not beach the boat with the foils down. But you can, with practice and a properly set up boat, sail off a lee shore with a fully retracted main foil and partially retracted rudder. Once in deep water, it takes 2-3 minutes to secure the rudder foil down and lock the main foil into position. When returning to shore, you simply reverse the process. I do this all the time, its the main reason I chose the UFO over the Waszp, but it took me some time to master the skills. Full disclosure, raising the rudder and keeping it up is not always smooth, and one of the aspects of the boat that I feel could be improved. Sailing in heaving winds in 'shallow water mode' is definately tricky, but it can be done.

Your problems with the main halyard and the rudder rake adjustment are all well known and easily solved. The easiest way to learn fast is to find an experience UFO sailor nearby and rig up and sail with him or her a few times. Once Fulcrum starts up its UFO clinics, they provide a huge amount of experience and help in a short amount of time if you can attend one. Other than that, read this post, ask specific questions, read the Fulcrum Speedworks site for FAQs and instructional videos.

Fulcrum Speedworks doesn't always do or design everything the way I would do it. The owners manual, for example, is a project that I'd tackle if I were in Dave's shoes and I'd develop a comprehensive pdf and video manual showing how to rig the boat and tips on sailing and foiling it. Perhaps he would have fewer Sunday night emails to address! But he runs it, not me, so he has his priorities. And he has a hell of a lot more experience building boats and running a boat company than I do, so I respect that. Their customer service is great. You don't mention how old your boat is, but there have been changes over the years and Fulcrum will help you understand what changes have been made and which ones are critical to do and which ones are just nice to have. They will provide the parts to bring your boat up to modern specs for very reasonable prices. They won't make you buy a new assembly if they can sell you a less expensive component and explain how you can repair it yourself.

Sorry for the long reply, but there is much to cover here. If you want a simple boat that you can just jump on and sail, you have the wrong one (but the Rocket might fit the bill nicely!). But if you want a foiler that can be rigged up and foiling in under 20 minutes, you have the right boat. I hope you stick with it, its a real treat to foil once you get the boat sorted and spend some time mastering its nuances.

Doug

BEACHING it I felt was doable because it advertises raising and lowering the foils from onboard.
solved many of my problems. But Still a problem raising the rear foil. Working on that. Lots of help from Dave and docs - as I uncover them.

 

[Rojoyinc]

@Rojoyinc - there's an online doc (ask Fulcrum) that explains it all...

From description and pic, looks like you got CF "sleeve" which might be a hint that they'll suggest you reinforce the boom forks or is just a gift / extra. If gift, extra, it is amazeballs to repair a broken tiller extension, tiller, etc (note!!! it's not the only ingredient, but it's the hardest-to-source ingredient).

For spreader bracket, make damn sure you use the right glue and procedure. Lots of pressure on that bonding point.

I found the doc. (why is this so secret?) why isn't all this info and unofficial manual links, video clips and how to's on a support page on their website?

Anyway I read through all the updates. Nothing there on the two white mast spacers? I suppose I just put them both on the end of the mast? (lose and run with it?) Assuming they are for mast rotation.

Most of the upgrades scare me as I'm not very skilled with epoxy. And mine has been on the shelf for years. (frozen in winter) but Dave says it should still be fine? (if bonds are important - should I trust the old stuff? But I have a lot of it.
I did order some injectors, gloves, stick n cups, acetone and 404 ? (filler).

Bad part is I don't dare sail the boat now "as is". And 4th of July week is coming.
I also found no instruction for the bottom of the rudder box (the piece shipped to me with the rudder shaft tear drop cut out.

Do I have to cut apart the original? I wish I could just add this to it - but I suspect it will be too tall then to fit on the boats mounting place.

Also the mast fillet instructions were not clear. They show the original and the update... later looks like it's a clear
plastic ring?

Are the bushings required updates? or just spares? My boat has been in the water/used VERY little.
I saw two black ones in there.

Dave... since you guys are building boats daily, can someone shoot some quick video with the phone of the process of installing these items?

Also this photo... (is part of the spreader update) instructions. But WHAT PART IS IN THIS PHOTO?
it looks nothing like the "C" in the spreader?

 

[Rojoyinc]

"looks like you got CF "sleeve" which might be a hint that they'll suggest you reinforce the boom forks or is just a gift / extra. If gift, extra, it is amazeballs to repair a broken tiller extension, tiller, etc ("


The SLEEVE? you mean that 18" mast looking tube? I THINK from instructions I'm supposed to insert that into the bottom of the mast? (reinforcement). Seemed someone clear until I read your above text? BOOM FORKS?
Amazing for tiller extension? Totally lost me on this? It's about 3" tube... diameter like the mast?

There is also a RING - I think is a buttress for the mast joiner. That seemed fairly clear, and I use the loose cf tape to wind under the buttress so stop it from slipping down. ?

The rider rake dial seems logical, the new box around the dial I suspect will eliminate the slop.
In the envelope, there is a little CF and some linen material. (like to fill a joint) ANGLE.

Sure would love videos of these upgrades being done instead of video driving from the office to the water or jumping in the trash dumpster.

"DAVE" I emailed you but also asked here to take the load off you. Or give you a place here to respond because you say you don't like email. I agree. Your expertise should be posted publically so that ALL can benefit from your answers. (you answer once) and 100 people can benefit instead of 1:1 you responding 100 time to each of us.
Also anxious to get the boat in the water again with upgrades. (Holiday week is near and my son is coming from MD for a week at the lake. Id' like to get it in the water instead of asking questions all summer. = (
Retired, but being a world-known photographer, video, and website guy for several international companies. I made support pages with clear concise step-by-step instructions. To take the questions away from busy personnel (DAVE) and move this load to the support page where customers can get the support they need "now" without bothering (DAVE). Getting clear answers on this stuff is like pulling teeth... hunting for mysterious links... Deciphering code ("ask Fulcrum") in the support forum? Because the data isn't public? Who better to see this data than the customers?
Two guys trying to sell a UFO are posting "no bites in months". I suspect it's because the UFO is SO MYSTERIOUS.
Many guys want to be sure they can get parts. (I don't see anywhere to order them) or know that they can fix a break should one happen. Lack of support materials can really slow sales.

I have asked several times. Where/how much for the new gray deck pad set? (no responses).
I Also asked where do I order (and how much) for foil covers (to keep UV off them on the beach)? (no responses).

I would donate my time and skills to get this data on the website if you like, but I'd of course need the data.
some of my work. https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

 

[Rojoyinc]

It might help when I get these at the boat. Here is my guess.
And spreader is only held on with epoxy at the inside of the "C"?

The front foil pin holders seem like a simple (swap over parts with 4 bolts)
but the upgrade instructions are of no help and REALLY confuse the seemingly simple issue. See photo?

 

[Rojoyinc]

"Dave is too nice to say, but that document isn't formally public."

Something weird is going on here and I have no clue what the reason is. Maybe if someone would fill me in and share the secret handshake and gang sign - I would clam up and be secretive too. ;-) I've spent decades creating support sites and massive training sites. Nothing here is logical?

I just saw this. "Filled main strut on the upgrades doc"
1. WHY is this being done? 2. why aren't the instructions HERE? Why TEASE us with a photo and say "contact us".
I just keep smacking myself in the forehead. DOH!

Let me share my recent train of events:

I get informed of update parts... ( guy that sold the boat had no clue, before learning (new parts) I was gonna sell the boat) (hint)(hint) People selling the boat after 1 week are UNINFORMED.

I get them... parts (THANK YOU DAVE). Anxious to put them to use I open them and no instructions. They're laying on my garage floor.

I search online, no instructions...

I get fed a roundabout codeword in the support forum... "ask fulcrum" to get online doc.

I googled "ask fulcrum"?? I still have no instructions...

Dave says give me a hot second...(I understand Dave's busy) but days pass, with no instructions....
(HINT don't waste time helping me Dave instead put links on your website.) Customers can help themselves saving you MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF TIME.
Someone on my facebook ufo support page shares the link to the (TOP SECRET) instructions!....
I go there and some of the upgrades say (for example Filled main strut) "to do this contact us for instructions". WTF !

(this company is not being efficient and is choking growth and profit potential). I started a company with my parents. They made millions, drive jags and Bentleys and I started my own company later at 22. In 8 years I was president of my C corp. My plan was to retire at 50. I made millions. I didn't retire at 50 I retired at 52. I've spent much of my career helping people in business with efficiency and logistics. This is insane... you need a page with parts for sale and accessories. Covers, deck pads, t-shirts, upgraded hiking straps, paraphernalia! These sales will pay the bills and allow the boats to be all profit. Organize your support data so you don't have to spend time dealing with it over and over again with each person. FOCUS or as I use to say to most people asking for help... "STOP DROP N ROLL". as in, what you've been doing. I want to see you succeed.

 

[martin 'hoff]

@Rojoyinc – each industry has its own practices. I'm also in the software industry, and some parts of it happy to publish their docs, and others aren't.

But when it comes to complex "hardware", the mores are pretty different. The builder of Waszps also has a similar doc, and will send you upgrades w/o charge (or shipping charges), but the doc isn't public. Waszp owners have access to it.

Apple publishes release notes for their OS but they'll also have internal "release notes" of known defects and weaknesses for the MacBookPro 2019 I'm typing this on... but that document isn't public either.

Folks in this forum won't know too much about your questions, because they are about those replacements and reinforcements.

 

[Rojoyinc]

upgrades - I have some OLD 105 and 205 (fast) hardener - wondering if I should get some 206 instead. (slow)

 

[Rojoyinc]

@Rojoyinc – each industry has its own practices. I'm also in the software industry, and some parts of it happy to publish their docs, and others aren't.

But when it comes to complex "hardware", the mores are pretty different. The builder of Waszps also has a similar doc, and will send you upgrades w/o charge (or shipping charges), but the doc isn't public. Waszp owners have access to it.

Apple publishes release notes for their OS but they'll also have internal "release notes" of known defects and weaknesses for the MacBookPro 2019 I'm typing this on... but that document isn't public either.

Folks in this forum won't know too much about your questions, because they are about those replacements and reinforcements.

I'm used to dealing with Hobie cats. A single man with an idea. They are the ones to use as a guide, not Waszp.
I have asked around about 10 times what the white spacers are that I assume are for mast rotation. Still no sure answer about what they are, where they go or how to install them. Something so simple should not be this hard. When something frustrates customers it should be changed. I bought my boat from a guy that sailed it 4 times. Frustrated he stored it for several years until I wanted one. He tried to talk me out of it! I still bought it and I sailed it twice and listed it on craigslist. It wasn't until I stumbled into this rather hard-to-find group and Dave coddled me. (he doesn't have time to coddle all his customers. Don't follow Waszp... I never bought one because I can't find anything about it. But I've owned about 10 Hobie cats. (bought and sold 20 others). A young friend just bought his first Hobie. (it's been a month and he now owns 3). He's been busy on the Hobie forum. Ever see the Hobie parts break down sheet? These companies aren't splitting the atom. BE LIKE HOBIE. ;-)

 

[Gilles29]

Nothing there on the two white mast spacers? I suppose I just put them both on the end of the mast? (lose and run with it?) Assuming they are for mast rotation

You need to use only one of these white mast spacers at the lower part of your mast ( improve mast rotation). The second spacer is for your spare

 

[Gilles29]

Are the bushings required updates? or just spares? My boat has been in the water/used VERY little.
I saw two black ones in there.

I think that If your rudder bushings don't have any backlash, they have not to be replaced, so the bushings delivered by fulcrum speedworks are for your spares

 

[Gilles29]

And spreader is only held on with epoxy at the inside of the "C"?

you must follow advices given by Fulcrum speedworks. I replace mine, and have no problem with that

 

[Gilles29]

The front foil pin holders seem like a simple (swap over parts with 4 bolts)
but the upgrade instructions are of no help and REALLY confuse the seemingly simple issue. See photo?

Once assembled, this what it looks like

 

[Gilles29]

"looks like you got CF "sleeve" which might be a hint that they'll suggest you reinforce the boom forks or is just a gift / extra. If gift, extra, it is amazeballs to repair a broken tiller extension, tiller, etc ("

To reinforce your boom forks, you have to use carbon fiber sleeve. Here are some pics of mine

 

[Dave Clark]

The retrofit processes are different from the OEM processes, so it's not as simple as shooting a video. The bushings are just a freebee, as are the mast collar rings which help with rotation as you've concluded. All of these retrofits are for long term issues because we found out about them after serious hours racked up on boats. I can't really imagine how I'd be sailing, building and selling my boats if they weren't generally durable for a while. That wouldn't be possible.

You've managed to find the guide I meant to send to you before I could so 10/10 for initiative. Do I have it right that you need instructions on 1. How to do the bottom plate (remove the screws on the bottom and knock the old plate down and off with a mallet. Put the new one in place, knock it into place with a mallet, glue in place with a big glue fillet and re fasten with screws) and 2. clarification on what the strut fill does?
The strut fill cuts down ventilation on the junction between the foils. It's got no structural purpose.
Switching from pin boards to gates for AoA is harder than it looks because the bolt spacings are different. So you need to translate the midpoint in order to stop the settings from shifting and keep it compatible with standard tuning. You want the tuning guides to still apply to your boat.
The company is presently badly short on customer service personnel, not by choice. We're hiring if anybody knows a likely candidate. Retaining personnel in customer service is always a challenge. Scaling the manpower required into a low cost manufacturing firm, doubly so.

DRC

 

[Dave Clark]

How to install a thicker rudder bottom plate:

1. With a phillipshead screwdriver, remove the screws on the bottom of the rudderhead​

​

2. With a medium weight mallet, tap the rudder bottom plate downwards, to shift it free of the tongue and mortice joints that fasten it in place. In shifting from the forward end and back to the back end, the plexus glue between the cheek plates and the bottom plate will fail cleanly and the old plate will be freed.​

3. Clean away the old plexus glue with a chisel or other scraping tool.

4. Line the new bottom plate on the tongue joints at the bottom of the cheek plate.​

​

5. Knock the new bottom plate into position with the same mallet.​

​

6. in the corners between the bottom plates and cheek plates, sand lightly to accommodate a similar glue fillet to the glue that you've chipped out with 80 grit paper.​

​

7. Make a glue fillet to replace the previous one with a putty of epoxy and colloidal silica, G-flex, Plexus Ma320, West System Six10, ADV 176 or any other high level adhesive.

8. Replace the screws.

DRC​

 

[Dave Clark]

To reinforce your boom forks, you have to use carbon fiber sleeve. Here are some pics of mine

View attachment 524907

View attachment 524908

This is, and always has been, a totally beautiful preventative maintenance move.

DRC

 

[Mayjune]

New UFO owner here with some questions.

1. I can get the main foil locking pin inserted into the strut, but can't get it through to the other side. Any tips on getting things aligned and getting the pin inserted fully? I've lubricated the pin with silicone.

2. Should the mast pivot freely, or is it supposed to be "sticky"? Mine takes some effort to pivot and will hold the sail against a light breeze.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Dave Clark]

1.What orientation is the boat sitting in at the time? Is it tipped over on its side or is it upright? If it's on it's side, the whole system can sort of sag out of alignment thanks to gravity. If that's happening while it's upright. Take a small round file or a 1/4 inch drillbit and a drill and lightly loosen the hole in the 1/4 inch strut, so the pin can pass through the strut at slighly higher variety of angles
2. It's not a flawless bearing but it shouldn't be binding up either. A light touch with some sandpaper inside the mast step on the hull will help, followed by some lubrication of the mast tube.

DRC

 

[Rojoyinc]

To reinforce your boom forks, you have to use carbon fiber sleeve. Here are some pics of mine

View attachment 524907

View attachment 524908

I had no clue and didn't see anything in the update docs about this. (part of my concern). I didn'y get much of this CF wrap. I think or thought it was for under the buttress? It shows a wrap of cf in this short doc.

 

[Rojoyinc]

How to install a thicker rudder bottom plate:

1. With a phillipshead screwdriver, remove the screws on the bottom of the rudderhead

I NEver noticed screws, at first I thought it was all metal and looks like a weld. (but much be sexy fillet).
I fear I'll break something. Maybe this can wait until fall when I'm dong sail ing?
HEre's what I've done so frar. I went to replace the rudder rake dial. I didn't know how to remove the original (housing walls?)
I tried a pry and again felt I would brake something. So I eneded up keeping the old housing walls and put the new dial on the adjustment rod. (for AOA of rudder foil). The rudder stills slopped some. So I took it off again and put one large washer on one side of the adjustment knob. Upon snugging it up...I had NO SLOP at all. I left it in the "middle" adjustment range and called it good. That was my 2nd worst problem after not being able to raise sail.
So two major problems solved. Thank you again.
So wondering what must be done before I sail again. (time is a wasting). I'm thinking the spreader MUST be done next? and before I sail again.?
I won't go out in strong winds at this point and due to lighter winds the rig won't be overly stressed.... so maybe it's safe? ​

​

2. With a medium weight mallet, tap the rudder bottom plate downwards, to shift it free of the tongue and mortice joints that fasten it in place. In shifting from the forward end and back to the back end, the plexus glue between the cheek plates and the bottom plate will fail cleanly and the old plate will be freed.​

​

Metal mallet? I think I have a hard plastic one too. Are these CF pieces? they look like metal with weld fillets. I won't break anythink pounding one away?
file? chisel or otherwise try to remove the fillet first?

3. Clean away the old plexus glue with a chisel or other scraping tool.​

after the separation of parts - I'm reading.

​

4. Line the new bottom plate on the tongue joints at the bottom of the cheek plate.​

​

5. Knock the new bottom plate into position with the same mallet.​

Place a little thickened resin between contact areas? (ie: glue?)

​

6. in the corners between the bottom plates and cheek plates, sand lightly to accommodate a similar glue fillet to the glue that you've chipped out with 80 grit paper.​

I have 105/205 is that fine for all (glue areas?) or should I order from Six10? (never used it) i read about it (it's not 2 part?) no mixing?
Seems easier to work with in a syringe - just open and squeeze it out? I ordered syringes for the west stuff I have.

​

7. Make a glue fillet to replace the previous one with a putty of epoxy and colloidal silica, G-flex, Plexus Ma320, West System Six10, ADV 176 or any other high level adhesive.​

Putty? I bought some thickener but have never used it before. That quality "weld" looking stuff must have been applied from a tube/syringe. It looks as if done by a pro.

​

8. Replace the screws.​

Never noticed them. I saw no cracking yesterday the boat has only been sailed 6 times so maybe I can put this off until fall?
btw - in an ENVELOPE THERE WAS SOME cloth? where would this go ? Likely to soak, and place for strength at a seam?
My thoughts are to get the C / spreader bracket on and do the rest in 3 months when in storage. ?

​

While I have you here... Again I'll try to find out where I can get foil covers? It's on the beach in the sun all day).
and how to get a set of the new gray UFO deck pads? This fall I'd like to replace my green pads that are turning to dust each time I touch them.
Also are the new ones superior material to the old? If not I can order a sheet of Hydroturf and cut my own deck pads.

DRC​