Steve and Dave Clarks Unidentified Foiling Object

[Rojoyinc]

Watching your video you can see what happened quite clearly.

Firstly you ease the sail without bringing your weight in fast enough.
As the boat starts to come over on top of you, you lean in pushing the tiller away from you which makes the rudder act as an elevator, pushing the boat over faster.
Also you grab hold of the hiking strap, to stop yourself falling backwards & your body weight pulls the boat over faster. The boat turtles because you don't let go until the mast tip is under the surface.

It just shows what you can see & learn from videoing yourself. Looks great fun as long as the water is warm...lol

I did exactly the same in my Laser recently.

I see you guys getting up at less speed than I'm getting. I THINK my rod has dug into the foil flap so I don't think it deflects the edge enough to lift. I will work on that next spring.
Also when I try to pull the rod back to deflect the foil - it feels a bit hard? IS that foil hinge suppose to be light or pretty stiff?
It Was fun water is normally warm, not 38 at night here "F" now and I just put the boat away last weekend. cold weather came sooner than normal (hahaha global warming ;-))
Something I thought of after a day of capsizes... putting a length of rope - that is attached to the center of the deck? I find when I'm losing it and falling off the side I have nothing to pull me back up. Main sheet can't as it eases out. hmmm just thinking as I type this. I wonder about a hobie type hook for trapping out? Something that as I slip back will retain me. But at least a line to pull myself back up would help.
Thanks for the recent video ... I saw someone tip over. He saw around back and pulled a righting line from in the water!?!?! I didnt try that but mine were turtled. I Wish people didnt edit out their fails and recoveries.

 

[Dave Clark]

It works!
Good stuff here I didn’t know. I’m thinking my bungee might have been a bit too tight.
My original question was more geared towards the linkage inside the sprit, but I may be overthinking it

@Ledge didn't we shoot a bit about tuning up the cranks relative to one another, or is that just pure wishful thinking?

DRC

 

[Captain Ujack]

@Ledge didn't we shoot a bit about tuning up the cranks relative to one another, or is that just pure wishful thinking?

DRC

Ledge’s text answer was pretty straight forward. I think quite worthy of inclusion in the unofficial guide. Thanks Ledge!
But hey, if there’s video, let’er rip!

 

[Captain Ujack]

I see you guys getting up at less speed than I'm getting. I THINK my rod has dug into the foil flap so I don't think it deflects the edge enough to lift. I will work on that next spring.
Also when I try to pull the rod back to deflect the foil - it feels a bit hard? IS that foil hinge suppose to be light or pretty stiff?
It Was fun water is normally warm, not 38 at night here "F" now and I just put the boat away last weekend. cold weather came sooner than normal (hahaha global warming ;-))
Something I thought of after a day of capsizes... putting a length of rope - that is attached to the center of the deck? I find when I'm losing it and falling off the side I have nothing to pull me back up. Main sheet can't as it eases out. hmmm just thinking as I type this. I wonder about a hobie type hook for trapping out? Something that as I slip back will retain me. But at least a line to pull myself back up would help.
Thanks for the recent video ... I saw someone tip over. He saw around back and pulled a righting line from in the water!?!?! I didnt try that but mine were turtled. I Wish people didnt edit out their fails and recoveries.

I’ve had similar problems with foil flap. Check to see if the foil is indeed deflecting when wand is moved. If not, the connecting rod inside the sprit may have failed or stripped out. Without flap movement, you will experience either submarining, or takeoffs that almost always lead to high flights followed by stalls, all dependent on your rudder foil trim setting and body position. Foiling without an active flap is extremely difficult and you will never achieve anything like you see in the videos!
The experts all say the flap is supposed to be quite stiff.
Good Luck!

 

[Gilles29]

I've righted A LOT of larger boats. Most of those require things like Step 1 - uncleat the main. And rotate the boat so the hull tips are into wind. (sail becomes a wing then). I've not read/seen anything like that about the UFO? It was clear that my sail was working like a chute or shovel. Could your main sail be rotating edge on the surface? And maybe mine was horizontal? I mean we had a wave runner pulling the righting line and it pulled it sideways upside down for a long time before it started to come up. Dave is sending me the real righting line. Hopefully, that will help. The hulls were slippery. I had rubber bottom shoes on. I tried standing on the bottom (aiming up)) of the would-be lower hull... I even TRIED though not very easy... so stand on the LIP that protrudes out all around the seam in the entire hull. Now the UFO doesn't cleat in. HOWEVER to stop my main sheet from pulling out of the pully I have a KNOT tied in the end. I suspect the main sail/mast? was not swinging around to go mast edge UP during my leaning out. I may try a mast float. Maybe a rubber dock bumper. (small one) and see if I can at least start to right it with the mast tip near the surface. Maybe I can bend the camera to see above the water to document my unsuccessful attempts.

Rojoyinc,
When capsizing I always try to keep the mainsail sheet in hand, and not let go!
This can allow to put a safety float at the top of the mast, so as not to turtle...
I found an empty cubitinair which I inflated by mouth, and attached to my top of the mast with a small rope thin 30cm long. When sailing, it goes naturally on the leeward of my main and does not seem too unsightly.

 

[Ledge]

Ledge’s text answer was pretty straight forward. I think quite worthy of inclusion in the unofficial guide. Thanks Ledge!
But hey, if there’s video, let’er rip!

Unfortunately, no video for that one

 

[Martin T]

...I may try a mast float. Maybe a rubber dock bumper. (small one) and see if I can at least start to right it with the mast tip near the surface...

A friend of mine uses one of these on her Solo to stop it inverting.

https://www.xtremity.net/hwd/Dinghy-Mast-Float-2600.html
It's very neat. You attach it to the main halyard, wrap it round the bolt rope & hoist it with the sail. Works a treat for her.

 

[JC843]

Reducing the price of my factory refurbished UFO to $3500. Boat is in Charleston, SC. Great boat- complete, and barely used by me- just not right for my location. DM me with any questions.

 

[Leroythefish]

Hi there, wondering if someone would be so kind as to suggest a list of things to check for on a say 2020 UFO from Australia for sale. It is unsailed, but put in the water once then taken out and left tied down uncovered outside, mast up, for maybe a year or so? Just basically unused. Looks like it’s been tied to / or near a jetty. Photos look ok, but maybe there are some obvious things to look for if I go see it?

Thanks in advance, nice forum btw.

 

[Ledge]

A friend of mine uses one of these on her Solo to stop it inverting.
View attachment 544840 View attachment 544841
https://www.xtremity.net/hwd/Dinghy-Mast-Float-2600.html
It's very neat. You attach it to the main halyard, wrap it round the bolt rope & hoist it with the sail. Works a treat for her.

One thing to consider is the windage of the boat on its side. I might be concerned that in a strong wind the boat would blow away from me if it could not turtle. If you try one of these, it would be good to experiment with that.

 

[Dave Clark]

One thing to consider is the windage of the boat on its side. I might be concerned that in a strong wind the boat would blow away from me if it could not turtle. If you try one of these, it would be good to experiment with that.

This is precisely why we designed the boat to turtle relatively quickly. Roll back through the history of this forum and I've laid out the rationale a fe times over the years. Most of the features on the UFO are deliberate, not accidental. Boats that don't turtle are unsafe.

DRC

 

[Kelly Federal]

I tell you: y’all would love the flat water here in Savannah. It makes everything easier. Yesterday we only had about 10 knots of puffy wind, and I still was able to get up and rage around…

 

[Joseph Lapp]

I've capsized the UFO many times - more than all other boats combined which is a whole lot for this 71 yr old - so feel I can speak from experience. Actually, I find it easy to right. I never let go of the main sheet until the capsize is complete. I grab the upper righting handle and stand on the bottom of the down hull and allow the mast to come up but not out the water. At that point, the boat spins into the wind when it is best to complete righting the boat. This way the boat should not sail away and it easier to get back aboard.

My only complication is if the mast gets stuck in the mud which requires using more of weight to break it out. And weight is something I have plenty!

Trying to right a Tornado in San Francisco Bay for me was almost impossible without outside assistance. As my first catamaran, I did not have righting lines.

 

[Rojoyinc]

Rojoyinc,
When capsizing I always try to keep the mainsail sheet in hand, and not let go!
This can allow to put a safety float at the top of the mast, so as not to turtle...
I found an empty cubitinair which I inflated by mouth, and attached to my top of the mast with a small rope thin 30cm long. When sailing, it goes naturally on the leeward of my main and does not seem too unsightly.

nice float. I have a lot of foam here and might cut it out so that is CLIPs on the mast. But your blow ups look great.

thanks

 

[Rojoyinc]

I tell you: y’all would love the flat water here in Savannah. It makes everything easier. Yesterday we only had about 10 knots of puffy wind, and I still was able to get up and rage around…

ah, my friend you now have a SKYDIO. I HAVE ONE TOO! for water sports. But I've yet to try it other than some driveway ONE WHEEL riding. NEXT SUMMER! Its a year old so far.

I'd love to pick your brain (do I have your email?) facebook? Ron Richards on facebook (my page).,

I hear it's not safe over water but I see it working pretty well by many.
Do you have the beacon in your hand? How to sail and control beacon?
I bought a water tight landard bag for it to go around my neck and I want to shoot the grandkids water skiiing with it on their necks

how cool and seamless the video is. I didnt even notice it had drone footage at first because the transition just made sense.
PLEASE do not edit out crashed and recoveries ;-) OR make a bloopers reel for us guys to learn from the recoveries.

 

[Kelly Federal]

ah, my friend you now have a SKYDIO. I HAVE ONE TOO! for water sports. But I've yet to try it other than some driveway ONE WHEEL riding. NEXT SUMMER! Its a year old so far.

I'd love to pick your brain (do I have your email?) facebook? Ron Richards on facebook (my page).,

I hear it's not safe over water but I see it working pretty well by many.
Do you have the beacon in your hand? How to sail and control beacon?
I bought a water tight landard bag for it to go around my neck and I want to shoot the grandkids water skiiing with it on their necks

how cool and seamless the video is. I didnt even notice it had drone footage at first because the transition just made sense.
PLEASE do not edit out crashed and recoveries ;-) OR make a bloopers reel for us guys to learn from the recoveries.

Honestly, Ron, it was quite an operation to make that video. I ran through several practice runs on dry land in the days prior to the actual filming. Even with that, there were a few white-knuckle moments out on the water; and I walked away with lots of lessons. The beacon may work in the way you describe — with shore-based controller but beacon on a water-borne person — I’ll make that part of my continuing test and eval process in the next week or two.

For you and anyone else out there who is considering drone usage with your foiling, I’m happy to talk through it. Over-water usage comes with some risks and limitations of which you may not be aware. Just give me a call: (559) 381-1909.

Cheers,
Kelly

 

[Rojoyinc]

I hate phones, I have a bit of a phone phobia. I also have a REALLY SHITTING MEMORY and if you tell me all your tricks n tips by the time I hang up they're like a fart in the wind. This I think is from years of having others handle all my contact/phone calls. All my friends now "only text Ron" and most feel the same way. also I love having a written notes to look back on and review with text or email - or a video I Can watch.
I bought a Mavic 2 something which is better to control than the Skydio, but the Skydio is so cool with its automation. It was a busy summer, with making upgrades to the OLD UFO - and other issues. (I do astro photography and had some serious equipment issues I (just solved). so I didn't get to the drones... other than one WALK AROUND and ONE WHEEL test which was awesome. It actually went under and later between the two power lines that run over the driveway. I FEAR - doing the UFO thing, but having a 20 min limit on a battery of a drone. I have to test it... I wonder if I take off from land, and it gets low - will it return to take off point and land ? That would be fine. I see you are WAY OUT IN THE WATER - your take off and landing spot may be to far away? So at low battery did you try and catch from the UFO? I don't suspect that's likely.
We could silk screen the Skydio landing logo on the deck and tell it to land there ;-)
I'm a old droner - I use to do some as part of my company. Flew drone from hot hair balloon to cover other hot air balloon races... I know about the Skydio thinking the water is sky. Luckily the lake I sail at it quite green with alge and not usually flat. The risk is real but how else to get that awesome bean footage? ;-)

 

[Rojoyinc]

I've capsized the UFO many times - more than all other boats combined which is a whole lot for this 71 yr old - so feel I can speak from experience. Actually, I find it easy to right. I never let go of the main sheet until the capsize is complete. I grab the upper righting handle and stand on the bottom of the down hull and allow the mast to come up but not out the water. At that point, the boat spins into the wind when it is best to complete righting the boat. This way the boat should not sail away and it easier to get back aboard.

My only complication is if the mast gets stuck in the mud which requires using more of weight to break it out. And weight is something I have plenty!

Trying to right a Tornado in San Francisco Bay for me was almost impossible without outside assistance. As my first catamaran, I did not have righting lines.

I will practice in the spring. I'll do it on the grass first. I THINK IT MAY BE A MAST IN THE MUD ISSUE - Even the wave runner had problems a couple times. 1100CC beast and he had to pull sideways quite a ways. I'm 160 and won't stick out much at 5'7".
I don't have righting line yet, so I Was using a rope I looped to the handle. You can't on the bottom hull? The inside of the down hull? Because I was turtled each time I tried to stand on the LIP of what would be bottom hull as it comes up. Wasn't much lip. I will also try to check which way the sail is. I maybe need more main sheet - there isn't much to hold to when falling in. I have many times before with my big cats. Once it was sailing away and I was dragging behind it like indian jones behind the truck. No hand over hand up the line to the boat at this age. ;-)
If I had more sheet I'd have more to hang on to. I also find I need to add a line I can grab as I fall off because I wouldn't fall off... As is - the sheet lets out and nothing to pull back up with. Daves sending me a righting line and I'm gonna put a mllk jug on the tip of the mast. I'm sure it would be easier if not turtled into the mud.
Tornado would be difficult solo. Did you have early wood? or later glass vers?

 

[Rojoyinc]

One thing to consider is the windage of the boat on its side. I might be concerned that in a strong wind the boat would blow away from me if it could not turtle. If you try one of these, it would be good to experiment with that.

would that really kill the flow of air around the mast?

 

[Joseph Lapp]

Rojoyinc,
I use the installed righting lines underneath the deck. I find they are relatively easy to grab and then put my feet on the bottom of the down hull. Righting slowly works best for me so she swings into the wind.

WRT the Tornado, i purchased a use one in San Francisco in the mid 80s. A fiberglass hull but wooden centerboards and rudders with glass overlay. The first time out was without a wetsuit which I quickly realized was not a great idea. Since then I've raced a Prindle 18-2 and Hobie 17. The wings on the 17 were great and when it blew I really put my weight to the best use and just climbed to windward like crazy.